1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

[dans1717]

Just like the title says, i have a 1976 electric shift omc 800 stringer. Now i bought the boat it had a motor swap done, so i am assuming it never got hooked up to the outdrive properly, but i could be wrong? The motor runs, but when i click it in and out of gear i get zero response(from behind the boat you could hear metal noises like something was not hooked up properly, so we shut it off, its possible the noises are normal and some random things were rattling). I ran my own wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid for now because there was not one hooked up before. I know that bypasses the neutral safety switch and was wondering this could be part of my shifting problem? I do not intend to keep it this way, it's just so i can test the motor.

The tilit motor is also broken, so i lifted up the outdrive and removed that arch gear so i could lower the outdrive. Is there a way to make sure i am hooked up to the motor itself properly? and do i need to remove the outer possibly inner seal to replace my trim motor? (i tried using a test wire from the battery straight to the motor but it wouldn't even try). I had no luck searching the forums for this info so i made my own thread, but if one exists let me know. Knocking problems out one at a time here (motor/gauges/trailer electrical are done so far...outdrive/tilt and steering are next). Thanks guys

 

[southkogs]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

Welcome aboard dans. I'm a little confused:

It's an electric shift, the boat will start and idle but when you shift it doesn't engage - but doesn't shut down either, correct? ALSO, you've just gotten the boat and you've never actually seen the outdrive work properly, correct?

If that's all true: disconnect the shift wires. Turn the key "on" but don't start the engine. Shift into Forward and test the shift wire (green one) and see if you're getting 12v. Repeat for Reverse.

I'm not sure what your noises are, but if the outdrive is tilted up while you're running it might be the ball gears growlin' away. Mine make an awful racket if I'm tilted up even at idle.

The tilt motor is probably one of a few things: if you're solenoids are good, move on to the motor itself. You can access from inside the boat. It's typically a real rib buster to get to, but you need to make sure it's actually runnin'. I've had mine rebuilt at the local parts shop here in town far cheaper than I could buy a replacement for. BE VERY CAREFUL if you remove the motor (which you'll probably need to do) that you don't lose the hammer coupling in there. it sits right inside the assembly behind the tilt motor, and it'll want to fall right out when you take the motor off.

You might have a bad worm gear in your tilt system, or have your clutch pack all gooed up. The clutch pack should have an fill port where you can check the lube. My guess would be that your problem is up in the tilt motor, but it's hard to tell.

If you don't have a shop manual ... get one. You're gonna' need it.

 

[dans1717]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

I apologize for the late response,

Thank you soo much, and it was just as you said the boat was making weird noises because the motor was in the up position. I pulled out the control box and traced back the wires to find that they were hooked up to nothing. I previously had to run my own ignition wire so the key would activate the solenoid to start the boat so that did not surprise me. I connected the wires after a long online hunt for helpful info on how to correctly do that, and now i have forward and reverse.

Now for the tilt motor. I bench tested solenoids in and out of boat they are good. I get power to the motor no problem(tested from the tilt motor the blue with a wire to the positive terminal on battery, then tested the green wire from tilt motor to the positive battery terminal...both failed). Note that i have kept my battery at full charge just in case. Checked the worm gear and she is fine. Drained nasty mustard goo from the clutch housing but to my surprise there was no rust or anything dirty in there just clutch goo stuff, and i will repack it soon. So now i am going to pull my tilt motor and ill post what i find. looks like the outer seal needs come off to get in there. i read somewhere that people use some kind of bellows sealant on that seal, but ill read more/ask later. Anyways thanks again

 

[Boomyal]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

Should not have to pull the transom seal to get to the tilt motor. I do it from inside my boat. Granted, access is tight. I have to remove a rear seat panel to get to it. Check the continuity of the tilt motor connector before you pull the motor. Mine, very old now, has been problematic. Also note that if you pull the tilt motor, the end caps will want to fall off the motor when you remove the bolts, so hold it together when you remove it.

 

[dans1717]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

Should not have to pull the transom seal to get to the tilt motor. I do it from inside my boat. Granted, access is tight. I have to remove a rear seat panel to get to it. Check the continuity of the tilt motor connector before you pull the motor. Mine, very old now, has been problematic. Also note that if you pull the tilt motor, the end caps will want to fall off the motor when you remove the bolts, so hold it together when you remove it.

my seat is out so access is not a problem that way. However, my tilt motor is soo far in there i cant even touch the mounting posts or nuts. I would take a photo but it will come out poor due to that location. Are you 100% positive i can remove this tilt motor without having to touch that seal( i am not trying to doubt ur expertise here in any way, its me that is unfamiliar ), because i really really don't want to remove that seal, however don't see it possible any other way.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

if you can crawl back to the inside of the transom, right along beside the engine, you can do it. The tilt motor is located slightly below and behind the rear intermediate housing mounts. Due to the construction of your particular boat, YMMV.

I've done it numerous times. Also, if you end up having to replace it, make sure you do not buy one of the cheap aftermarket ones. They simply do not develop the proper torque to do the job.

Once removed, I think you would find the inside of the motor a horrid mess. There are some tricks that you can employ to keep that from happening on a new motor.

 

[southkogs]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

^^^^^ Definately give it at least a try or three from inside the boat. I actually had my boot off at one point and tried to get to the tilt motor that way - it was easier to get in the boat and fight it out from inside.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

^^^^^ Definately give it at least a try or three from inside the boat. I actually had my boot off at one point and tried to get to the tilt motor that way - it was easier to get in the boat and fight it out from inside.

From the outside, it would probably work well if your eyesight and wrists could double back in a 180? articulated turn.

 

[dans1717]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

You guys were right about getting it from inside the boat. I took the old tilt motor out and the new is here i'll let u know how it goes sometime this weekend. i did take the seal off cuz im a dingdong and now i have to reseal it on there with 5120 or w/e that stuff is called. also, more importantly, i found the reason my tilt motor burnt out. The clutch pack housing plate was on there so tight my tilt motor couldnt turn the gear that touches the huge arch gear to lift my outdrive ( tried even with the outdrive arch gear off and outdrive lifted so it had zero weight on that gear ). i backed off the bolts on clutch pack housing plate and it turned easy by hand ( so i checked from inside the boat by turning that shaft with a screwdriver and it was easy then). my solution will be to get a piece of thicker gasket material and make my own gasket for that housing that gives me the little bit of space i need.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

You guys were right about getting it from inside the boat. I took the old tilt motor out and the new is here i'll let u know how it goes sometime this weekend. i did take the seal off cuz im a dingdong and now i have to reseal it on there with 5120 or w/e that stuff is called. also, more importantly, i found the reason my tilt motor burnt out. The clutch pack housing plate was on there so tight my tilt motor couldnt turn the gear that touches the huge arch gear to lift my outdrive ( tried even with the outdrive arch gear off and outdrive lifted so it had zero weight on that gear ). i backed off the bolts on clutch pack housing plate and it turned easy by hand ( so i checked from inside the boat by turning that shaft with a screwdriver and it was easy then). my solution will be to get a piece of thicker gasket material and make my own gasket for that housing that gives me the little bit of space i need.

The tilt clutch housing cover plate should always be double gasketed.

 

[dans1717]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

The tilt clutch housing cover plate should always be double gasketed.

ya as it turns out i had no gasket on there at all ( previous owner i guess ). It looks like previous owner also added grease in there cuz it was nasty and goopy in the clutch pack.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

...... It looks like previous owner also added grease in there cuz it was nasty and goopy in the clutch pack.

Grease is one of the prescriptions often given, here on the forum. It has some merit, I suppose but I opted for drilling a 1/8npt drain hole in the bottom of the box and stuffing a little stainless pipe plug in it. That way I can drain the 30wt often and do not have to remove the cover plate.

It is the nature of the beast, that no matter how new the double shaft seals are, they will weep water. Too much water build up and the oil gets driven up the sector shaft and out into the tilt motor. Those motor windings do NOT want to be soaked in oil. It reduces the torque and can never be all cleaned off.

 

[dans1717]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

Grease is one of the prescriptions often given, here on the forum. It has some merit, I suppose but I opted for drilling a 1/8npt drain hole in the bottom of the box and stuffing a little stainless pipe plug in it. That way I can drain the 30wt often and do not have to remove the cover plate.

It is the nature of the beast, that no matter how new the double shaft seals are, they will weep water. Too much water build up and the oil gets driven up the sector shaft and out into the tilt motor. Those motor windings do NOT want to be soaked in oil. It reduces the torque and can never be all cleaned off.

thanks for that info. i was thinking i would most likely run oil in there, but after your post i might just go with grease (so there is lower risk of damaging my tilt motor). Then ill just seasonally check that grease in there.

 

[dans1717]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

hey guys thanks for all the help. I ended up making my own gasket cuz the stock oem one is thinner than what i like...i just went to home depot and got a big sheet of the stuff and cut it to spec. I got the new tilt motor in and gasket on...so the outdrive goes up and down now. But the outdrive goes up and down very fast. is this normal? ill post a video tmw cuz its too dark now, but its probably 2 seconds to go from all the way down to all the way up! its the correct tilt motor for my motor according to fitment guide. you can google # 360405308269 and that's the one i bought. thanks again

 

[southkogs]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

I have no idea how fast mine goes up, but it's reasonably quick. Down is a lot faster with with Isaac Newton helping the process along.

I'm assuming yours is doing what it's supposed to.

With the Stringer, both up and down you don't want to just hit it and tilt to the stops. Rather, "bump" it up or down. Coming up, I usually go in three "bumps" of the switch. Down is generally two to three. No real rule, get comfortable with something but get in the habit of "bumping" the tilt.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: 1977 Sea Ray 351w 235 OMC Outdrive Installation/tilt

..... But the outdrive goes up and down very fast. .......

One of the great advantages over the black anchors. In my skiing days, I could see that I was about to run over someone else's ski rope. I would kill the motor, hit the outdrive up and have it completely out of the water as the boat slid over the rope. Not only does it come up faster, it comes up farther so you can actually sit on the transom and change a propeller, if needed.