1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

[spencroy]

Hello Experts,

1977 Johnson ? 115 - 115EL775 - Ranger Fish and Play

In an effort to learn more about how my boat works, I would like to ask a question. I have had issues with my boat starting off and on for the last year. Typically when it fails to start I will adjust the throttle (engaging the safety in the command center I assume) or tap on the solenoid. After my last trip these work arounds have proven in effective, and I have been told on this forum before to replace the solenoid if it is suspect.

I am planning to do so, but I wanted you guys to check my debugging logic to make sure I am not off base:

[ Solenoid ]
Battery ===[ bottom - ground - ignition - top] === Starter

Using a voltmeter and a kid I found I was getting 12v at the ignition wire (on the solenoid) when the kid turned the key, but nothing out the top of the solenoid. I am thinking 100% its bad.
Also, if I cross jumped from bottom cable of the solenoid to the starter it turns over just fine.
---- logic ok? ---
Roy

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

you are on the right track, but could be bad ignition.

 

[spencroy]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

Thanks for the tip tashasdaddy.
In an effort to rule that out I put the meeter on the lower two posts of the ignition. When engage it was spiking to 12 so that made me suspect the ignition could be ok (but I am bad at electricity so I could be off base)

Is there a good troubleshooting method I can use to debug an ignition (as much as I hate going back into that command center)? The problem I am having is understanding going from the diagram in the SELOC manual to what I see on the internal side of the key switch.

Thanks
Roy

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

change the solenoid. more likely the problem.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

Open the thumbnail below. Use a small jumper across 3 and 6 on the solenoid. It either works or it does not. If it does not, check the ground between 2 and 1.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

Use a diagram combined with logic.

You already said you have meter, so at least that hurdle is complete. Test for voltage at the small solenoid post where the white wire is, while somebody turns the key to start. If you get 12 volts, and the solenoid clicks, the key switch and neutral start switch and all the wires in between there and the motor are OK.

If the voltage was OK, but the solenoid did not click, the solenoid is no good....or else the other small terminal is not grounded.

If the solenoid clicked but the starter didn't run, check the voltage at the big terminal going to the starter. Should be at least 10 volts. If it does have decent voltage but no starter run, the starter is bad. However, if it did NOT have decent voltage, the solenoid is bad. Or the battery is dead.

All this assumes the battery is good and the terminals are shiny clean and tight. You DID check that first....didn't you?

Whatever you do, don't go running out and buy a car solenoid. That will only complicate things, making it tougher for us to know what we are dealing with in the advice department.

There is no Voo-doo magic in electricity. Just common sense and God-created laws.

 

[spencroy]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

Wow.. great advice guys.. thanks so much

I really appreciate the diagram and the suggestions on debugging the ingnition should I have issues with that in the future.

F_R to your points
1. Yes, finally I did do something right. I fully charged the batteries prior to debugging. Tested with primary, when failed tested as well with trolling motor battery (all are tightly connected, redid all the connectors last year)

2. I have the "If the voltage was OK, but the solenoid did not click, the solenoid is no good....or else the other small terminal is not grounded." situation. I had my kid turn the key and I see 12v at the white cable, but no click. The ground looked solid

3. One other odditiy. I noticed if I put my meter from the white ignition wire on solenoid (with key in the off possition) to the ground (on solenoid) I was pulling -.2 to -3 v. The book seemed to indicate this was a sure sign of a short. however, I am not sure that where I had my meter and what the book was talking bout were the same thing so I still wanted to run it past you guys.

The solenoid I am planning on purchasing is:
Sierra Solenoid 18-5808 17.99
(much better deal on iboats than the 55 bucks my local marina wanted)

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

It does sound as if your solenoid is faulty, but do not overlook that ground connection first. I know you said you had a peek at it, but that is not enough. Physically remove it, take a file to it, then retighten. It must be a 0 ohm connection for the starter to operate properly.

The reason is that terminal is copper, or tin plated copper, and when bolted to a steel part with a steel bolt and nut, electrolytic corrosion is sure to occur. It is usually not visible by the human eye.

 

[spencroy]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

Thanks for the tip HighTrim, that is something I certainly would have overlooked.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

Quote: The solenoid I am planning on purchasing is:
Sierra Solenoid 18-5808 17.99
(much better deal on iboats than the 55 bucks my local marina wanted)

Your dealer has quite a markup doesn't he? The solenoid is $36.70 direct from BRP. Yes, 18-5808 is correct. Replaces BRP 383622>586180

 

[spacerust]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

ok, my motor is doing pretty much the same thing. i can jump it to starting but grounding and directly to the starter. when i turn the key it has enough voltage and clicks but doesn't turn. but i still can't determine which it is, starter or solenoid? am i missing something here?

 

[spencroy]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

If the solenoid is clicking then its probably bad (my guess). I replaced mine and have not had that problem since. I hope that helps
Roy

 

[25r76e]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

hi
the picture posted in this thread is great. can i get a list of what the numbers refer to please

 

[spencroy]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

Hello 25r76e,
I looked at the image again, but I was not certain what each number represented. I pinged Ezeke to see if he might have that info.
Thanks for the read
Roy

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1977 Johnson - Solenoid troubleshooting question

The base diagram is from the electrical section of the factory service manuals and is used for troubleshooting. Most of the high points are covered here:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/electricStart.html