1976 Johnson 85hp

[Dave Turner]

Boat had this motor on it when I bought it. I knew nothing about it. I went out today and started messing with it. Was getting spark at the plugs but would not start. Sprayed gas into carbs and it started right up and kept running until I turned it off. Waited awhile and it started up by just turning the key this time and kept running. and pumped water fine. Question: Would the fuel pump be acting up since I had to prime the carbs. Motor has been sitting for a good while. I looked up a fuel pump kit and they show one for 1978 but not 1976. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks

 

[hardwater fisherman]

Did you pump the fuel bulb before you sprayed fuel in the carbs? Is the choke and or the primer working?

 

[F_R]

Fuel pump has nothing to do with starting. You pump fuel to the carburetors by squeezing the primer bulb in the tank hose. After the motor starts, the fuel pump takes over to pump fuel to the carbs to replace the fuel that is burned as it runs.

Is your manual choke set on automatic position? Are you raising the small throttle lever to the start position? Are you holding the electric choke switch as you turn the key to start? And yes did you squeeze the bulb before doing any of this?

 

[Dave Turner]

I pumped the ball and it just did not seem to get that hard and no leaks seen. It was pumping fuel to the carbs because I loosened the drain screws and there was fuel there. I do not know how much but there was some. When i first tried to start it just seemed to not get fuel and the plugs were not wet. (checked them) I had the air baffle (sic) off so i could make sure the choke was working. This motor does not have the choke push in the key type. It does have a switch on the throttle that regulates the choke. I noticed that after I turned the motor off the bulb was not hard. When I finally quit messing with it, the motor would start fine. I hope it does that when I try it next time. I would at least like to rebuild the fuel pump since it has set so long. I can't seem to find a kit for that year.
I hope there is not a problem with the rings and compression. Someone told me they had a motor that would crank and crank and would not start. Sprayed gas in carbs and it would run all day. Let it set for a week and would not start. Thanks

 

[F_R]

Primer bulb is working, as evidenced by fuel in carburetors. Are you checking the spark with plugs in or plugs out? Should throw a 7/16" spark with plugs IN. Assuming it does that, try manually choking it. If it doesn't spark with plugs in, you have another problem.

But you still haven't answered my questions. Is the manual choke in automatic position? Are you lifting the fast idle lever? Are you holding the choke toggle switch up as you crank it? Without answers, it is hard to diagnose.

OK, if we assume you are doing everything right, the electric choke might not be working properly. That is a two-stage choke solenoid and BOTH stages must be working for a cold start. If that is the case, manual choking it should start it up anyway.

 

[emdsapmgr]

On a cold start: pump the fuel hose bulb up to the point where the bulb gets firm. Once the engine starts, it begins to draw fuel through the fuel line. As it runs, the fuel hose bulb will soften somewhat. That's normal. But the bulb should not collapse on itself once running. Once the engine warms up you probably will not need to re-choke the engine at all during subsequent re-starts. Bombardier does not make a fuel pump rebuild kit for that year 85 hp. Either replace it with a new pump, or check other marine distributors to see if they may make a rebuild kit.

 

[Dave Turner]

Primer bulb is working, as evidenced by fuel in carburetors. Are you checking the spark with plugs in or plugs out? Should throw a 7/16" spark with plugs IN. Assuming it does that, try manually choking it. If it doesn't spark with plugs in, you have another problem.

But you still haven't answered my questions. Is the manual choke in automatic position? Are you lifting the fast idle lever? Are you holding the choke toggle switch up as you crank it? Without answers, it is hard to diagnose.

OK, if we assume you are doing everything right, the electric choke might not be working properly. That is a two-stage choke solenoid and BOTH stages must be working for a cold start. If that is the case, manual choking it should start it up anyway.

I tried to start it with the choke in all positions and the fast idle lever up. It would crank but not start. I then pulled the plugs and looked at each one. They were not wet. I checked the plugs for fire when I had them out and had good spark. I then sprayed gas in the carbs and it took right off and ran off the fuel tank. I ran it on the muffs for 10 minutes and had good water spray and checked the heads to see if they were getting hot. They were not getting even warm so I wonder if there is a thermostat in the housing. I then shut the motor off. After ten minutes or so I turned the key and the motor started right now. I then pulled each plug out and all were wet and i quit for the day. If I go out in a couple days and it fires up I will be happy. I have to remember that this motor has been sitting for quite awhile. I just started tinkering with it while I was restoring the boat and was somewhat surprised it even ran. I also need to get a better compression gauge to check the compression again. Thanks guys for all the replies.

 

[emdsapmgr]

As you run the engine more, you'll want to check the idle temps of each head. Should be in the 143-150 degree range when warmed up in the lake. May be less in a cold lake. The engine has two thermostats in the thermostat housing just under the exhaust covers at the back of the engine. Two hoses connect to it. Each stat controls the temp to each head. Since the boat is new to you, suggest you replace both stats, just for peace of mind. They are cheap and you'd hate to have an overheat 5 miles from the boat ramp.

 

[racerone]

But, but ---that motor only has one thermostat ( aka vernatherm ) on it.

 

[F_R]

There is a reason I asked the questions. One of them concerned checking spark with the plugs in or out. If it gives you any more trouble, check it with the plugs IN!!! You say you are running it on muffs. I suspect it does not have the vernatherm installed (??). I say that because you say it had "good water spray". Don't expect it to come up to operating temp under such conditions. Especially if it is in freezing temperatures.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Ah, yes, just one vernatherm. Was thinking of the 77 140. Also, your vernatherm-equipped engine runs cooler that the dual stat engines. Am thinking that the vernatherm opens around 115 degrees. The factory expects the head temps to vary in a close range, but within the 100-130 degree range- normally.

 

[Dave Turner]

Well, waited a week and a few cold days and went out to try to start this motor again. Moved the cold start lever pumped the bulb and flipped the choke lever. Turned the key and bingo, started right up. Imagine that after sitting for a week. Never had to spray the carbs.

 

[emdsapmgr]

My 79 85 hp Johnson was touchy to start. Needed extremely little choke. If I started it normally, like my V6, the engine would quickly flood. So on mine, just a slight push on the key and it was running. If held too long, it would flood. I'd have to move the fast start lever up and crank it to dissipate the extra fuel in the block. I look at my engine as unusual-most don't start that easily.

 

[gm280]

Well, waited a week and a few cold days and went out to try to start this motor again. Moved the cold start lever pumped the bulb and flipped the choke lever. Turned the key and bingo, started right up. Imagine that after sitting for a week. Never had to spray the carbs.

Then I would say you have ZERO problems with it now. Don't fix things that are not broken. If it decides to not start again, then time to do something. JMHO!

 

[Dave Turner]

Do these motors run pretty cool? I was amazed after it ran for awhile on muffs and put my hands on the cyl. heads, they were still luke warm. Compared to my 15 Rude this one does not get very warm at all. Anyone know if there is a idle up or down screw on these 85's?

 

[racerone]

???-----Do the same test in the lake.---Post the results.--Yes there is an idle speed adjustment screw on the throttle arm on the motor.