1975 9.9 sea horse

[Garner51]

I’ve got a 1975 sea horse I got from a “friend”. First I had to buy the top coil for the motor as someone had took it. I done the routine check the compression I have 90 pounds on both cylinders so I continued with the carburetor cleaned it up nice and I pulled my plugs out and checked them. They gave a nice blue spark so I threw it in a barrel and plugged up the fuel tank tried to start it Hense on tried to start. Nothing… well I done my troubleshooting once again.. I’m getting spark I’m getting gas. I just don’t know if it’s at the right time so… I done some research and found this.. (I’ll attach pictures )I done exactly as it says. But I’m still not getting it to run. I mean. I cant even get it to hit off starter fluid being sprayed directly into the neck of the carburetor is there something else I’m missing or doing wrong. *side note my flywheel has the I’m assuming timing marks on the underside and the armature does too but mine doesn’t line up it’s almost like mine is backwards but how when the crescent key IS NOT BROKE. I’m by no means a boat mechanic but I know a little and I will say I’m so sorry if I ramble or seem to ask a dumb question this to me is just baffling….

 

[jimmbo]

Welcome to iboats

A 1975 would have a Magneto Ignition. You tested for spark. Did you use a Gap Tester similar to this set for about 5/16" of an Inch?

A Spark at a 0.030" in open air means nothing. It takes a lot more Voltage to jump that Gap during the Compression Stroke. Speaking of Compression, 90lbs is at the Lower End of the Range. You need to inspect the Ignition Components under the Flywheel. You can set the Points with a Feeler Gauge, 0.020" by putting the Points rubbing block where it says "Set" on the Cam. The other Timing marks, shown in the Book, require a Timing Fixture to be used, it is more accurate, especially when the Points are used. To allow for any roughness of used Points, I use a 0.019" Feeler Gauge.
Another Item, you should replace is the Water Pump Impeller, before running the motor.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the Idle Speed is not adjusted by anything on or near the Carb. Spark Timing is what controls the Idle speed, and therefore, no spec.
TCW-3 oil mixed at 50:1 is what that Engine needs in order to survive

 

[racerone]

Switch plug wires ?

 

[Garner51]

Thanks for the quick reply guys!! I did not check the spark with a gap tester, back to the compression.. I was told 90 pounds was ideal for this old of a motor as long as it didn’t leak off and it doesn’t… but you guys know more than me that’s why I’m here asking for help haha. Now back underneath the flywheel all the components of the ignition seem to be fine and in working order.. and as noted I’ve used the filler gauge to set the “timing” to .20 thousands of a inch with the cam on the set positioning. A .022 will not slide through. I know you mentioned the water pump. We had this motor to hit a few times a when it did it shot water out the port hole so I know the pump is good. I’m not trying to dish money into a paper weight until I know it will scoot me down the river. I hope you guys understand what I’m saying…and in response to RACERONE. I have put the top coil wire on the bottom plug and vise versa and nothing…….

 

[Garner51]

Also I forgot to add. My marks don’t add up on the flywheel and armature plate? Does this even matter? If it does how to I correct it? Cause I see no way to see the keyway will not allow it to spin without the cam also

 

[jimmbo]

Did you set the Points using the Feeler Gauge as stated in the Book? If you did, it should be Fine.
FYI: The Armature Plate does rotate as the Throttle is moved.

 

[Garner51]

Yes I used a filler gauge. And I noticed the armature plate moved when the throttle was moved but that still wouldn’t make my timing marks line up…. I’m just baffled the closest marine shop said he could have it running no doubt with what all I’ve told you guys it’s just a 100 dollar minimum. And if I can tell him over the phone what’s going on and he’s that confident then it has to be simple…. I just don’t want to hand over a Benjamin for someone to literally do 10 minutes of work when it’s right in front of me. And “Doug”. The marine mechanic is who told me how and printed me the pictures of the manual so I just feel dumb at this point..

 

[Crosbyman]

stick a screw driver (small) into the top cyl. feel & position the top piston as it reaches TDC.
check your timing marks they should line up

 

[racerone]

I believe you are overthinking on the timing marks.-----A wise man would install a new impeller.-----These motors do not have an overheat buzzer.----hey do not have a shutdown on overheat feature.-----It will run until it is far too late !!

 

[OptsyEagle]

The points set at 0.02" is enough. The timing marks are to be lined up not when the points are opened to 0.02" but line up when the points just open. You would need a multi-meter to identify that moment and then line the flywheel up with the key and see if the timing marks line up then. As said above, 0.02" gap will make it run, so I doubt this is your problem.

The only other thing is that the points on those motors can corrode and/or oil up very easily so you want to give them a light filing/sanding, blow with compressed air. Set them and then clean them with laquer thinner or some solvent and blow them again with compressed air. They should be imaculatly clean. A business card with laquer thinner on it works good for cleaning.

The actual starting position for that motor is with the trottle advanced all the way to the neutral stop. Ignore the marks on the tiller handle. If you have done this and your coils are going to the correct cylinders and you have the points set at 0.02" and you have 90 lbs of compression, that motor should start, especially when you put gas mix directly into the cylinder holes.

 

[Garner51]

stick a screw driver (small) into the top cyl. feel & position the top piston as it reaches TDC.
check your timing marks they should line up

Just did this and the timing marks line up when at TDC

 

[Garner51]

The points set at 0.02" is enough. The timing marks are to be lined up not when the points are opened to 0.02" but line up when the points just open. You would need a multi-meter to identify that moment and then line the flywheel up with the key and see if the timing marks line up then. As said above, 0.02" gap will make it run, so I doubt this is your problem.

The only other thing is that the points on those motors can corrode and/or oil up very easily so you want to give them a light filing/sanding, blow with compressed air. Set them and then clean them with laquer thinner or some solvent and blow them again with compressed air. They should be imaculatly clean. A business card with laquer thinner on it works good for cleaning.

The actual starting position for that motor is with the trottle advanced all the way to the neutral stop. Ignore the marks on the tiller handle. If you have done this and your coils are going to the correct cylinders and you have the points set at 0.02" and you have 90 lbs of compression, that motor should start, especially when you put gas mix directly into the cylinder holes.

I’m not sure where to go from here honestly. I have cleaned my points with a fingernail file everything I’ve done seems to be adding up right but I’m not getting it to hit. And yea you’re right. Directly into the cylinder it should at least hit for that Mili second or combustion but mannnn I’ve got nothing. It’s like my intake is sucking in after the fire and then pushing out after the gas is squirted into the cylinder. I’m by no means a certified mechanic but I’ve done my fair share of shade tree mechanics and this like I’ve said before and I’ll say again…. This is baffling

 

[Garner51]

I believe you are overthinking on the timing marks.-----A wise man would install a new impeller.-----These motors do not have an overheat buzzer.----hey do not have a shutdown on overheat feature.-----It will run until it is far too late !!

Not sure what you mean by I’m overthinking the timing marks. Buddy, I’m just thinking something isn’t right lol

 

[OptsyEagle]

This is probably not your problem, since I don't think the link and sync could be off so much that the motor would not even pop with gas added to the cylinders, but when you advance the throttle you will notice that the armature plate will rotate and the armature's throttle cam will start pushing on the roller on the carburator, to allow for more fuel. On that throttle cam you will see an indented arrow. These motors advance/change the spark timing to accommodate the different RPMs of the motor. The RPMs of the motor are governed by the amount of gas allowed from the carburator. To synchronize this process that arrow on the throttle cam is supposed to be in the middle of the carb's roller, JUST as it touches that roller. They call this the link and sync of your carburator. All this is adjusted by 2 x 5/16" hex nuts on the starboard side of the armature plate.

As I said, I would think that in any kind of alignment of the throttle cam the motor would probably still pop with gas added to the cylinders but you might still want to verify that your link and sync is set up properly.

Yeah, this one is quite the mystery. I would go back to flipping the spark plug wires again. Kind of sounds like your plugs must be firing at "bottom" dead center instead of the top dead center that running motors use.

 

[Garner51]

This is probably not your problem, since I don't think the link and sync could be off so much that the motor would not even pop with gas added to the cylinders, but when you advance the throttle you will notice that the armature plate will rotate and the armature's throttle cam will start pushing on the roller on the carburator, to allow for more fuel. On that throttle cam you will see an indented arrow. These motors advance/change the spark timing to accommodate the different RPMs of the motor. The RPMs of the motor are governed by the amount of gas allowed from the carburator. To synchronize this process that arrow on the throttle cam is supposed to be in the middle of the carb's roller, JUST as it touches that roller. They call this the link and sync of your carburator. All this is adjusted by 2 x 5/16" hex nuts on the starboard side of the armature plate.

As I said, I would think that in any kind of alignment of the throttle cam the motor would probably still pop with gas added to the cylinders but you might still want to verify that your link and sync is set up properly.

Yeah, this one is quite the mystery. I would go back to flipping the spark plug wires again. Kind of sounds like your plugs must be firing at "bottom" dead center instead of the top dead center that running motors use.

I flipped the plug wires again and it hit a few times like maybe three but nothing to amount to anything. And I did check the link and sync also it’s fine, you mentioned that the plugs must be firing at bottom dead center?? How is that possible the motor can’t be 180 out, unless the keyway is sheered. But when I put the new keyway in it only whent in one way and corrected the 180 out… please correct me if I’m wrong I’m just confused as to what is going on with this motor at this point.

 

[jimmbo]

Not sure what you mean by I’m overthinking the timing marks. Buddy, I’m just thinking something isn’t right lol

To me, he is saying just set the Points at 0.20", get the motor running and go boating

 

[Garner51]

To me, he is saying just set the Points at 0.20", get the motor running and go boating

0.20”check.
spark check.
Gas Check
Nice solid compression….. check.
Here’s where it gets fun. You guys helped me line up the timing marks on the armature plate and flywheel. And do the link and sync on the carb. All of that checked out to be great. But still not a bit of a BRAAAAAAPPPPPP like that 2 stroke should……
I’d be on the river tonight pulling out some channel cats. It’s like there’s something I’ve overlooked and it’s got to be simple. But I’ve literally racked my brain with this one… I couldn’t sleep last night that’s why I came here and asked for the help of the pros… anyway. I re-done the same process over again this evening hoping for a better outcome but to no avail. I’m all ears if any one has clues or anything…this gremlin “Johnson” has got me stunned.

 

[jimmbo]

Is it getting fuel? Spray a little Premix into the Carb, and see if it lights. Don't spray Starting Fluid, as it is bad for 2 Stroke Engines that pass Air-Gas-Oil through the Crankcase, as it is very good at washing Oil off the Internals

 

[Garner51]

Is it getting fuel? Spray a little Premix into the Carb, and see if it lights. Don't spray Starting Fluid, as it is bad for 2 Stroke Engines that pass Air-Gas-Oil through the Crankcase, as it is very good at washing Oil off the Internals

It is getting fuel, and I have a spray bottle that I have used on many occasions with go-go juice in it (gas) but no fire.. it’s like the thing is hitting on the exhaust stoke for a second. Then it won’t at all. Idk maybe if that was the case when I switched the plug wires around wouldn’t that have solved that issue?

 

[jimmbo]

A 2 stroke engine requires 3 things to run;
1: Fuel and Air, in the Proper Portions
2: Compression, in the Crankcase, to get the Air-Fuel to the Combustion Chamber, and in the Combustion Chamber
3: A spark at the correct time

Your Engine is deficient in at least One of these Items. More Troubleshooting is required