1975 85hp Evinrude no spark on 1 & 3

Besegen

Seaman
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
57
1975 85hp Evinrude Two weeks ago the boat ran great when last we had it out. Last weekend drove 90 miles for a lake weekend and it would not fire up. Checking it out today I find that I am getting spark on cylinders 2 and 4, but no spark whatsoever on 1 and 3. I checked, cleaned and tightened grounds to the coils and everything on that side, still nothing. I put a new power pack in last summer, about 5 trips ago, but have a feeling about it. I ran resistance and DVA tests this morning and am getting good readings on one set of the black/white to white/black readings (1 and 3) but low readings on the other (2 and 4) set. Coming back here to review for sure that process to make sure I'm doing it correctly. Been over a year since the only time I ran them, but I thought I'd check out here if the power pack can cause two to fire and two to not...or any other suggestions what I need to be looking for, while I'm at it. Thanks guys.
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
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Jul 7, 2006
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It's possible. I'd rather suspect the sensor, but you seem to have ruled that out.
 

BonairII

Commander
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Jun 7, 2011
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Have you swapped the 2 suspect coils to see if the problem follows the coils?
 

emdsapmgr

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 9, 2005
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This website has some excellent ignition troubleshooting info for your engine: cdielectronics.com
 

emdsapmgr

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 9, 2005
Messages
11,551
This website has some excellent ignition troubleshooting info for your engine: cdielectronics.com. I'd be interested in the output voltages from the stator and the timer base, since you are using a DVA.
 

Besegen

Seaman
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Jan 28, 2013
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57
I've been working through the troubleshoot test from that website. I'm not going to report the voltages yet because everything came out low but I noticed my battery charge was down so I'm getting full charge back on and doing it again. I was still getting DVA 160V off the stator disconnected from the pack. On the pack it was dropping to 133V. The resistance on the stator is somewhat lower (356) than what the chart shows (400-600). Currently I am still getting a constant blue spark fire on cylinders 2 and 4. 1 and 3 are getting no fire at all. I had the tester on 3 when I very first began today and I noticed it fired for about the first couple of seconds then quit on the very first try. Neither of those ever showed any spark again after that. I swapped the timer base wire sets (1 and 3) and (2 and 4) on the power pack and the firing issue did indeed follow the 1 and 3 set to the other two cylinders. That is where I am at right now. I have the battery charging and will document all the DVA and resistance test results tomorrow. Thank you for the suggestions so far, guys.
 

Besegen

Seaman
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Jan 28, 2013
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Okay, here are the test results:

Battery - 12.67 V

Stator wires on power pack (brown to brown/yellow):

Resistance - 648.5 ohms
DVA connected - 132.7V
DVA disconnected - 163.8V

Timer base sensor 1 to sensor 3:
Resist - 8.6 ohms
DVA connected - 0.147V
DVA disconnected - 0.156V

Timer base sensor 2 to sensor 4:
Resist - 8.7 ohms
DVA connected - 0.184V
DVA disconnected - 0.189V

Sensor 1 to Ground:
Resistance - 2.8 ohms
DVA - 310V

Sensor 3 to Ground:
Resist - 2.8 ohms
DVA - 309.2V

Sensor 2 to Ground:
Resist - 2.8 ohms
DVA - 309.6V

Sensor 4 to Ground:
Resist - 2.8 ohms
DVA - 308.8V


Some of these numbers are so bad I really wondered if I was doing it right. I ran through all of them multiple times and it was pretty much always the same. About three times in the retries I'd end up with a more reasonable or even acceptable number on a time base DVA, but I could never duplicate it. Other than those few flukes the numbers I recorded here were consistent through about six runs through the testing process.
 

Besegen

Seaman
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Jan 28, 2013
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My understanding of the results is that I need a new timer base and power pack, both. Is this correct? And what about the stator numbers; does the voltage usually run at the low end of that 150V - 400V range or is the fact that it is sitting between 161V and 153V a sign of a potential problem there too with that resistance number also being a bit high?
 

ownedcasey

Cadet
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Aug 13, 2012
Messages
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I am having the exact same issue with my port side bank of cylinders on my 1980 Johnson 85 Seahorse. I've cleaned all the connections and swapped wires 1 & 3 with 2 & 4 and got the same results with it swapping banks. I haven't gone through the troubleshooting tips...pretty much because I have no idea what the voltage and ohm readings indicate or what to do about them. So, since it appears as though you're about 5 steps ahead of me, will you post what ends up working for you, what needed replaced and how you found out? I'd surely appreciate the tutoring.
 

Besegen

Seaman
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Jan 28, 2013
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Yes, I'll make sure I note the results thought it may be awhile. This is only my second summer dealing with a boat. I went through this whole deal last year with low spark on all cylinders and resolved it with a new power pack. The troubleshoot system I'm using is from the CDI site that emdsapmgr referred to above. Basically, if you get to the point in the troubleshoot process of taking these measurements and haven't resolved the problem yet then these measurements will narrow whether its the stator, timer base, or power pack. The quick version is...if the numbers do not fall in range while the wires are connected to the pack, but do when measured again disconnected then the pack is the problem. If they are bad on the pack and still bad when measured disconnected...then the stator/timer base are the problem, whichever one the wires you are measuring are coming from. In my case above...I am getting bad to horrible results with the timer base wires whether they are connected or not...which tells me there is a problem with the timer base. I also ran resistance tests on the pack itself and pack to ground without the wires connected and got bad results which says the pack is bad too. The pack is only a year old...the fact that I blew one last year and now seem to have again within only about five trips since the new one kind of confirms too the test results that my timer base has a problem. A bad timer base can burn out a power pack, and a bad power pack can burn out a timer base...from my understanding. So the timer base being shot would explain why I have gone through two power packs in two years now. The stator I am really questioning because the voltage is in range, but it running at the far low end of the range constantly and I don't know if that is normal or not. The resistance is a little higher than the range...which to me "could" be what is pushing my voltage so low in its range. But I don't have the experience to know if this is normal, means it is bad, or means it may be going bad and I probably should start thinking about it soon or something. This is how I understand it...hoping to get confirmation of this and/or maybe some recommendations of things to look at before I decide I need to replace them...especially in regards to the timer base and stator. The power pack, I'm pretty sure, is done.
 

ownedcasey

Cadet
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Aug 13, 2012
Messages
6
Did you try swapping the powerpacks around to see if it works on the other side and visa versa? I'm about to try that out to see if it's the pack itself.
 

Besegen

Seaman
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Jan 28, 2013
Messages
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Do you mean the coils? or the timer base sensor wires on the power pack? I swapped the sensor wire sets around and the problem did follow. Originally my 1 & 3 cylinders do not fire and 2 & 4 did fire. when I swapped the wires I got fire on 1 & 3 and not 2 & 4. That pretty much tells me that the coils are okay because they the other ones fired after the swap. One thing I don't quite get though is why I even am getting fire to two of the cylinders when I am not to the other two because if you look at my test results...they are all low and all four are very similar. It seems like all four cylinders should be acting the same...giving no spark...or weak at best. This keeps nagging at me that maybe I did something wrong while testing.
 

dodgeman67

Seaman Apprentice
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Jan 15, 2014
Messages
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I am having the exact same problem with the same motor. Am very interested in your results. I have ordered a new powerpack and will post my results ASAP. Thanks for sharing.
 

dodgeman67

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
Messages
36
Replaced powerpack, no improvment. Removed timer base and noticed the retaining ring was melted. Put a new cdi timer base on and she is running great on all four.
 

Bosunsmate

Admiral
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Apr 7, 2012
Messages
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Yep seems like it needs at least over 0.147V to fire the powerpack, shows how resistance testing can be quite uninformative considering they are only .1 ohmns apart
Timer base sensor 1 to sensor 3:
Resist - 8.6 ohms
DVA connected - 0.147V
DVA disconnected - 0.156V

Timer base sensor 2 to sensor 4:
Resist - 8.7 ohms
DVA connected - 0.184V
DVA disconnected - 0.189V
 
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