1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

[Besegen]

I've been following the forums for a few weeks now (since I bought my first real boat) but this is my first time posting.

I have deck boat with a 1975 85 Evinrude. A family friend completely restored it and he had it out only a few times since, but he insists this worked fine when he did.

I have had the boat out three times now and cannot get it to reverse. I changed the lower unit grease before the first trip and double checked (re-topped it off) after that just in case. It shifts to neutral and forward both just fine and the motor starts and runs like a charm other than not shifting to reverse. I have adjusted the linkage on the cable until it was maxed out and took us out of being able to shift to forward and it still would not go. I had seen some people talk about the grease being low so we checked that after the first go round and made sure it was topped off as I said. Immediately after that we adjusted the linkage until the prop locked in reverse, put the muffs on, fired it up and went to reverse. The prop instantly reversed its rotation. We gave it a little throttle for just a moment (didn't want to be throttling up with just the muffs) to make sure the prop rpms increased when we throttled and it did.

We were positive we had it whipped but got it back to the lake, dipped the boat in and fired it up and still...the boat would not reverse today.

I popped the hood again, took the shift bar off and shifted in by hand. It when in and shifted easily. I kept it there and readjusted the linkage to try to match it up and again I maxed out the adjust and was still falling maybe an 1/8" or less of being able to connect back to the bar. The forward and neutral though are both off again at this point too.

I'm at a loss about 1. What needs to be done to gain that 1/8" (less) bar but still get my forward and reverse back to right. and 2. Why it seemed to engage just fine with the muffs out of the water but when we dip it in it won't.

The previous owner says he never used it in cold weather. The water temp has been between 32 and 36 at most the three times were out and air temp between 40 and 50 degrees each time. He is hung up on thinking maybe the grease is too thick, or cold shrinkage of parts, or both is keeping it from engaging. Is this possible? I know the theory is there but I don't know that it would shrink that much (at least 1/4" from engaging in his linkage original position). I also think the motor and grease would warm up after buzzing around awhile and you would get it back later in the trip if that was the case. Trip 2 we did go ahead and go out for awhile and never did get it to engage later. But what do I know, I'm a greenhorn at this. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Chasin Tail]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

I would say that you need to take the 6 bolts out the bottom of the scag and check out what your clutch dog, gears and pinions are looking like. That was a common problem on a lot of you outboards before 85 or so.. It's possible it was never replaced with the superseded parts(I'm pretty sure they had to change the set up for the gears for that model).
Did you run it in forward? If so was it jumping gears when you did?

 

[Chasin Tail]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

Also, you probably wanna check to make sure your bushings aren't busted up. There's probably pictures online to show what they should look like when in working order.

 

[Besegen]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

Thanks for responding, Chasin Tail. Yes, we ran it in forward a few weeks ago and it ran great. We went ahead and went fishing that trip and just avoided backing up and pushed off the time or too we needed to. When we were messing around adjusting the linkage and moved it to the point it couldn't go anymore and it still didn't work I forgot to adjust it back before taking off forward and did the clutch dog hop. I'd already read up enough by that time to know exactly what that was and shut her down immediately. We set the linkage back where forward was solid and went fishing.

I just went back out to mess with the boat on the driveway and re-tested adjusting the linkage to get prop lock. At almost max adjust in reverse it locked up counter clockwise and was mostly locked clockwise but not quite. You could still heave it by that way. Adjusted just a bit more, which is all I had left, and it locked both ways. I then took the shift bar loose from the linkage again and and gave it a push and you could feel it just snap in place with like another 1/8". Really it almost felt like it "popped" past something it was kind of hanging up on at that last little bit. I was then actually able to still settle the bar back onto the linkage. I had quit at that point to just wait til morning when a buddy with a little more experience is coming over. But thinking about how that felt now, wondering if something might not have been at the other end of that rocker between the motor and it keeping it from raising that rod up all the way. I had looked under there a number of times while we shifted just to see if we still room for it to raise and it wasn't topping out on the bottom of the motor or something. I never noticed anything in there...but thinking about it, that's kinda what it felt like when I gave it that heave and it popped in place. And now that think about it...I did just find a shiny new nut laying in the bottom of the motor compartment after that; wondered where it came from. Never thought to add the two up till now. I think I'll go back out there and see what its doing now.

 

[Besegen]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

Nope. Still the same. By the paint on the bolt it doesn't look like its ever been off, but is that linkage arm splined where it can be taken off and shifted forward a spline? We've done that on trucks before to move the adjustment center forward.

Not sure how that would help though since we are already moving away from correct with forward and neutral. Is it possible its a cable issue? Would the "push" for reverse on the cable maybe be weakened up so it isn't going as far even though the "pull" for forward is still fine?

I appreciate the idea about checking the dogs and all that but when I push it down by hand it I can fully engage it just fine. It seems like there is something forward of all that which just isn't allowing us to get the last little bit of movement we need to get there.

I know the former owner changed the water pump and having read some other threads I was concerned he didn't get the shift rod height correct but he swears up and down it worked just fine the two times he had it out between then and now so I don't see how that could have changed. I've known him a long long time and its not like him to not say it how it is at all.

I also opened up the powerdrive unit on the helm to see if there was adjustment there but didn't figure out how to do it yet.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

I believe you state that the engine will shift into all positons when you disconnect the linkage and shift it by hand. That's good-would indicate that the gears/clutch dog are ok. Normally, once you confirm that it will shift properly by hand, you would adjust the knurled nut on the shift cable so that the engine cable end will function in the identical range of the shift lever. Sounds like yours does not do this. In that case, it is possible that the shift rod height is not set correctly in the lower unit. Usually you can compensate for an incorrect shift rod height adjustment- if the shift rod is set close to normal height. Once the shift rod height gets too far out of the normal height setting, you probably can't compensate for that by adjusting the shift cable end under the cowling. I'd pull the lower and verify the shift rod height.

 

[Besegen]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

Thankks, emdsapmgr. I had been considering that. Wouldn't even the shift rod adjustment, though, just move my over all adjustment travel for both forward and reverse one way or the other? That's the problem I'm running into with any of the ideas I've read or come up with to this point. What I am noticing is that I have the knurled nut adjusted as far as it can go and at that point I am engaged partially, maybe even mostly, in reverse. The prop is completely locked counter clockwise and is "almost" locked clockwise, but not quite. I can grab it and move it to stop but then heave a little and push it on by that direction. If I remove the linkage bar and push the rocker down by hand it pops down then about another 1/8" or less and (and you can feel the dog lock in place) and then it locks up the prop both directions.

That would jive with the shift rod adjustment like you said. Except that, at the point I'm already at with the knurled nut adjustment I am already beginning to lose proper adjustment on neutral and forward. Neutral I know because at that point when I try to start it I have to jiggle the control around toward forward a little to be able to start. And when we were in the water with it when the knurled nut was maxed out to this point I got bad clutch dog hop when I shifted into forward, meaning I was adjusted out of it too far that way. If I raised the shift rod a little bit it would move my entire shift travel ratio one way or the other up the line wouldn't it? Would it make a difference in that I'm not quite engaged in reverse yet but already losing forward? I could be wrong but that's just how it is in my head. All the adjustments with shift rod, knurl nut, and control box seem to me they move the overall shift travel required for forward to reverse up and down the overall line but don't change how far I have to go to engage forward compared to how far I have to go to engage reverse.

The only think I can think would do that is maybe a cable problem. It looks like it pulls to forward and pushes to reverse. Could the cable be "soft" in a way that it pulls to forward just fine but is absorbing some of the travel when it pushes to reverse leaving it short? Or could a split somewhere in the cable casing be letting the cable buckle or arc up as it pushes again making it fall short of full travel when pushing reverse? Or am I wrong about how the shift rod or something else might affect the shift travel ratio to get to forward and reverse? My gut says its an issue with the cable itself. But my gut is really really new at this too.

 

[Besegen]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

A buddy that has way more experience than I do came over this morning and we think we narrowed it down to the cable being bad. They both look like they are probably the originals, pretty shoddy looking, and it just seems to fit the problem. Its a cheap and easy enough fix to go ahead and do it anyway since its probably about time regardless. I appreciate all the advice. If this doesn't fix it I'll move on to the suggestions here. Thanks guys.

 

[classiccat]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

it could be the remote control itself.

 

[Chasin Tail]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

I missed the part about moving it into reverse with your hand. I guess Budweiser and the iboats forum are not the best combination! Haha I hope the cable will fix hope all your problems.

 

[Besegen]

Re: 1975 85 Evinrude reverse won't engage

Yeah, BlueFin, we took the control box apart, checked it out and lubed everything up real good. I thought we'd find adjustment in there to tinker with but saw no way to do any. It all looked like it was working good but I can't say we put calipers to it or anything to make sure everything getting full travel. Might be worth looking at again if the cables don't work.

No problem, Chasin Tail. I hope it does too. Anyone know a good method to measure for cable length without removing them and measuring? I want to get them ordered but we have plans to hit the water before I'll probably get them in.