1965 18hp Evinrude. Timing mark doesn't line up when points are open

[stephenspann27]

I've been working on this '65 18hp motor that I got in a non-running state. I recently got it running but it was misfiring badly. I installed new points, and condensers, and set the point gap to .20 thou. What is really confusing me is that if I install the flywheel and rotate the flywheel to where the timing marks line up, then pop the flywheel off, the points are not open, they are several degrees from being open. I've included a picture that shows how far past the timing mark the points actually open. What could cause this? The flywheel key seems to be intact.

 

[racerone]

Are you looking at the correct timing mark.??----Look for 2 other timing marks.---One for each set of points.

 

[stephenspann27]

Yes, I'm pointing to the timing mark with a pick in the first photo. The flywheel position in that photo has the points open. There are several youtube videos and write ups on setting the points using these timing marks. I'm fine with gaping the points using a feeler gauge, I'm just bothered by the timing mark being so far it. I feel like something is wrong with the setup. Here is a video that shows the timing marks : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga1Cjymj6ms

 

[Crosbyman]

well the cam lobe seems to be opening the points correctly (+/-) ... did you remove the timing base and reinstall it correctly.

 

[racerone]

??---The timing marks indicate where the points start to open.----It is not the position where they are at 0.020"

 

[bspeth]

If you set them to.020 then they are close enough for it to run well. I like to use a continuity tester when setting points because it gets them firing exactly 180 deg apart.

 

[stephenspann27]

well the cam lobe seems to be opening the points correctly (+/-) ... did you remove the timing base and reinstall it correctly.

I didn't remove the timing base until I discovered the "problem." It's tough to wrap your head around, but I've read over and over that the throttle position doesn't matter during this procedure, which means the orientation of the mag plate position doesn't matter. I think the reason for this is because the "I I" mark is on the mag plate, where the points are bolted, so those two will always remain exactly relative to each other. The same way the crankshaft, points cam, and flywheel/flywheel mark will always be relative to one another. I just don't understand why I can watch videos and read guides where people are using this mark, and their points break exactly at the mark and mine is so far off.

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

 

[stephenspann27]

??---The timing marks indicate where the points start to open.----It is not the position where they are at 0.020"

That might be what's going on, I can see the it just starting on the ramp of the cam

 

[racerone]

Start the motor and use a timing light to verify timing.------Mark on the flywheel will always be between the 2 marks on the plate.----It appears to me you were mixing 2 methods of setting the points.------Myself I prefer using the meter.---That gets the points opening at the correct time for strongest possible spark.

 

[cajuncook1]

stephenspann27, I think you are trying to incorporate two different methods for setting the points and yes it is giving you a lot problems. You either use one method or the other.

The feeler gauge method is an acceptable way for setting the points and you motor should run just dandy. The feeler gauge method has you set the points with feeler gauge at 0.020 inches when the points shoes at the high point of the cam. You do one set of points at a time and they are doing approximately 180 apart. Nothing else to do.

​If you are use a timing fixture and you are using the timing marks then put the 0.020 gapping of the points out of your head. With the timing fixture and marks you are setting the points to open exactly when spark is supposed to released. The timing fixture is a very pr?cising method. Gapping at 0.020 inches plays no part in using the timing fixture and marks.

​I will tell you there are thousands and thousands of motors out on the water that are running just fine using the feeler gauge method. Don't over think it.

​Cheers buddy,

​cajuncook1

​I have both methods in listed on my you tube account. Yes they are a little long and boring, but they are meant to help someone who has little to no outboard experience.

 

[stephenspann27]

stephenspann27, I think you are trying to incorporate two different methods for setting the points and yes it is giving you a lot problems. You either use one method or the other.

The feeler gauge method is an acceptable way for setting the points and you motor should run just dandy. The feeler gauge method has you set the points with feeler gauge at 0.020 inches when the points shoes at the high point of the cam. You do one set of points at a time and they are doing approximately 180 apart. Nothing else to do.

​If you are use a timing fixture and you are using the timing marks then put the 0.020 gapping of the points out of your head. With the timing fixture and marks you are setting the points to open exactly when spark is supposed to released. The timing fixture is a very pr?cising method. Gapping at 0.020 inches plays no part in using the timing fixture and marks.

​I will tell you there are thousands and thousands of motors out on the water that are running just fine using the feeler gauge method. Don't over think it.

​Cheers buddy,

​cajuncook1

​I have both methods in listed on my you tube account. Yes they are a little long and boring, but they are meant to help someone who has little to no outboard experience.

Thank you!

 

[Crosbyman]

I always have set all my J&E at .020 on the high point of the cam lobe.... all work and idle very well but I will try the ohmeter method soon on my next toy my 20$ 3026 ​3hp

 

[lindy46]

When the rub block on the points lines up with the crank key, set the points to .020" - NOT when it lines up with the word "top" on the cam.

 

[Crosbyman]

Odd most books I have read recommend adjusting the gap at .020 on the high point of the cam lobe and that is where the cam is marked TOP or sometimes SET
​and that is not in line with the key itself ???

​....Turn the flywheel to position where the breaker point gap is at its maximum... recommended gap setting is .020 full open
​.....Insert feeler strip (.020 thick) to check gap clearance . If gap appears over or under, proceed with required adjustment...

I have always used TOP as a ref. point to manually adjust my J&Es with no issues

just mho

 

[gm280]

One question, are the points old points are did you just install them. I was wondering if they were the correct points for your engine. A longer or shorter point arm will change the spark occurrence. JMHO

 

[lindy46]

Odd most books I have read recommend adjusting the gap at .020 on the high point of the cam lobe and that is where the cam is marked TOP or sometimes SET
​and that is not in line with the key itself ???

"TOP" refers to the top side of the cam, not the high point. See above pic - "TOP" doesn't coincide with the key.

 

[thatone123]

Thousands of outboards? How about millions of cars? Because many of the old pre-black box computer cars were set just with a an ol' feeler gauge. Many times folks over complicate things for no good reason. Kind of like the old Mercury outboards.

 

[racerone]

On a magneto it is best to use the timing marks to set the points.----Feelers work well too.-----Critical to get points opening at the correct time for maximum spark.-----Not the same as a battery ignition system !

 

[Crosbyman]

No Title

" Turn the crankshaft so that the breaker arm rubbing block is on the high point of the cam. The high point on the cam has the word "TOP" stamped at the high point location. Using a feeler gage, adjust the gap to .020 inch by turning the adjusting screw. The feeler gage .020 blade should be able to snugly fit between the two contact points. There is no need to spend too much time getting the .020 gap exact. This .020 gap is simply a starting point from which to adjust from as you will see in the procedure below. Clip one end of your test lead to the location where the coil and condenser wire will be screwed to the points."

taken from .....

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm



I have used "TOP" with .020 gapping on several motors and all are working perfectly including my favorite ...
​but will soon try the ohmeter method on my next one.

 

[racerone]

The use of the meter is easy.-----Not only that if meter does not go from infinity to zero resistance there is something wrong.----Points may still need to be cleaned again.