1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Andy1850

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Jan 21, 2012
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8
I got a 1964 3hp Johnson outboard that has not run in 28 years. It did not start at first nor did I expect it to, it had a mouse nest inside of it. OK, I pulled the gas tank and cover off, cleaned out all of the trash. I replaced the coils, capacitors and spark plugs. I could not get a spark out of one of the wires, so I replaced it as well. After this I cleaned out the fuel that had been turned to gel left in the tank. I took the silencer off and sprayed carburator cleaner into the butterfly valve. I then put it all back together and put fuel with Seafoam in it and it cranked right up. It ran pretty good at high speed but stalled at idle. It got really hot, when I splashed water on the head it turned to steam and sizzled. The engine also smoked alot.

OK, so I then pulled the lower unit and replaced the impellar, I am not sure which way the arms are supposed to bend. I made sure the pump worked by hooking up a drill and submerging the pump. It blew water out of the top but was effected by the turbulence of the prop. ( I am doing all of this in a barrel). I snaked the water line and blew air up it and it seemed open. On a whim I then pulled open the head and checked the water jacket which had water residue in it from when I had run it a little while before. The water jacket was clear of debris. I then shot air into the water return and it was clear as well. I replaced the head gasket and cranked it today. It ran pretty good but is still getting very hot. the little holed on the back of the lower unit are spraying out very little water (more of a mist). The engine ran smooth at higher speed but had a knocking sound at low speed idle range.

I am open to any help that you have!! I am really stumped as to what I am missing. I do not think their is a thermostat on this engine. Thank you for any help/advice anything.
 

HighTrim

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Jun 21, 2007
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10,486
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Welcome to iboats.

Here is some light reading for you, a great article on the JW ignition

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

Here is a full tuneup with waterpump, carb etc...

http://www.maxrules.com/fixtuneitup.html

The carb needs to positively be removed and cleaned/rebuilt. This cannot be accomplished by spraying carb cleaner into it, that does nothing. You may actually be running lean at idle due to dirty low speed passage. DO not run again until you go through this.

Regarding the impeller, if you hold the impeller housing upside down looking into it, you twist the impeller into it CCW, so that the arms of the impeller are facing CW, if that makes sense.

Regarding your overheat, check inside the housing for wear. If they are worn in the center around the driveshaft they will suck air and run hot at idle like you mention. What about the wear plate? Is it highly scored/worn? You did remember the key right ;)
 

nwcove

Admiral
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May 16, 2011
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6,293
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

what ratio fuel mix are you using? i do believe its 24:1 for your motor.
 

HighTrim

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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
10,486
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

what ratio fuel mix are you using? i do believe its 24:1 for your motor.

Definately on that 3hp. There are some that will say 50:1 for a '64, I am not one of those people. :)
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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45,907
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Agree with HT. OMC did call for all its outboards to go to 50:1 in 1964, but they did not replace the sleeve bearings in the JW and Lightwin until the mid 70s. Therefore we recommend you stick with 24:1 on pre-1975 JWs.

Good luck. :)
 

lindy46

Captain
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Nov 27, 2008
Messages
3,886
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Yup, clean/rebuild the carb and make sure to remove the welch plug on top of the carb and clean the idle circuit underneath. Those little motors tend to run hot and you won't see a lot of water spraying out the holes in the leg.
 

Andy1850

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Jan 21, 2012
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Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Thanks everyone. I rechecked the impeller and it is in correctly and the wear plate is clean. The gasket were the water pipe comes in is like new. I am running 24:1 clean of additives. I think I agree and am going to rebuild the carburetor. I ran it again and it ran for about 8 minutes at slow speed before it shut off. That seems like a fuel issue.

If anyone thinks of any other ideas let me know. I will report back after the rebuild.

Thanks again.
 

nwcove

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Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

a carb rebuild is a must, have you tried running in the barrel with the prop removed? in a small barrel the the turbulance and exhaust bubbles can make them run a bit warm. ( if you do remove the prop, go very easy on the throttle, its easy to over-rev the little motor)
 

Andy1850

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Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
8
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Thanks again for everyones help. I got the Carb rebuilt today and just in case I replaced the other spark plug wire. I was looking around the engine to make sure everything looks right and I realized that there is something different about my motor than the schematics that I have seen online. It has a hook up for an external fuel tank...its a two tube hook up. This connects into what looks like a fuel pump. I did not think the JW-19 had a fuel pump. The pump had an access door so I unscrewed it and the gasket ripped to shreds....I do not know what part this is so I do not know how to get the gasket.

Here are some photos of the Fuel Pump...the carburator was really clean...could this pump be causing my problem? Anyone know the part number or anything about this? Thanks again for your help.

pump2.jpg
 

kfa4303

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6,094
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

HI andy. While a carb cleaning is in order, the fuel pump looks pretty funky too. I would try to clean it as is as best as possible using a bit of carb cleaner and a soft brush and some compressed air. I would also suggest adding a little 1/4", in-line, clear plastic fuel filter like one in the pic below between the fuel pump and the carb itself. Not only does it filter any sediments, in the fuel, but it allows you to see the fuel moving, so you can always be sure how your pump is functioning. If cleaning the pump won't work, you may have to replace it as I believe you can not rebuild them. But, try cleaning the carb and pump thoroughly and you might be surprised how well she works. In any event it should run better once its had a couple fresh tanks of gas run through her on the open water.


in-line fuel filter.jpg

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...hnson 5.5 HP 1954-1964 Carburetor Tune-UP.htm
 

kbait

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Nov 13, 2007
Messages
2,481
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

That's likely a factory option. Not many of those out there.

It'll still run off the onboard tank, but I'd get the gasket and test the fuel pump (one way flow through each nipple) and replace the lines anyway before using, in case air is getting in the powerhead at the pump. That'd be a lean condition that could be bad. Never heard of this happening.. haven't seen many dual/fuel's w/bad pump either..
 

Andy1850

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Jan 21, 2012
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Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Anyone have any idea where I can get this gasket? Can I bypass the fuel pump completly and run the fuel line straight to the Carburator from the built in gas tank? I never intend on using the external fuel tank.
 

kbait

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Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Pull the pump off. If there's a threaded hole in the cylinder where it gets it's pulse, seal it off and run straight from the onboard tank to carb. A short threaded bolt w/oring or fiber washer should seal it up.
 

JB

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Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

My JW-13 had an added-on fuel pump similar to that with a three way valve to allow me to use either the built in tank or a remote tank. Dr, Bill had that added before he sold the outboard to me. He used it for extended river trips on a square stern canoe. He claimed it would run 100 miles of river on one 6gal. tank. I only used the built in tank, but the guy I sold her to really wanted her for a kicker to troll the Great Lakes.
 

lindy46

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Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

Can I bypass the fuel pump completly and run the fuel line straight to the Carburator from the built in gas tank? I never intend on using the external fuel tank.

Yes. I assume the built-in fuel tank still runs through the fuel pump. It does on my JW22, and the way the fuel lines run on mine, the pump must be functioning even when using the built-in tank. So you can just run a fuel line directly from tank to carb, and plug the old line going to the pump.
 

nwcove

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Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

cant the fuel pump be rebuilt? i think it would be nice to find the parts to make that lil gem right.
 

Andy1850

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Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
8
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

I was able to piece the fuel pump gasket together and it seems to be holding. Not a permanant solution but the best I can do until I can find one of these gaskets or the pump part number. The engine started right up and i ran it for about 30 minutes. I tried to die a few times but I am sure this has to do with adjusting the low speed needle. I read the article on it out there but I just have not gotten it right yet.
I appreciate all of the help everyone has given me on this. IF anyone has a part number on that pump I would be greatly appreciative of your help.
 

kbait

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Nov 13, 2007
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2,481
Re: 1964 Johnson Seahorse 3hp...need help!!

I think you can use a newer/universal square pump: http://www.iboats.com/Johnson-Fuel-Pumps/dm/*******.732962105--**********.089322205--view_id.271387

The link brings you to Johnson fuel pumps, so maybe you can locate your particular one, but the first one should work. I'd call my favorite salvage (timsoutboard.com or one of these: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=438822) and get a good/used for cheap...especially if you don't plan to use it remotely.

Good luck!
 
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