1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

[mungo]

Hi--I`ve just restored my 1958 bellboy banshee with the above outboard attached and purchased a worshop manual for this engine--- however i have a problem that isn`t covered in this manual--The bottom cylinder isnt firing (pulled the new plugs and tested them on both leads--they`re both ok).The weird thing is that the ignition barrel surround appears to be taking the spark pulse for the bottom cylinder when the engine is running on one cylinder--we have been "booted"by it.The motor has the recommended compression.I`ve replaced the impeller (pumps water well) replaced all fuel lines-rekitted the pump etc etc--Following instruction from the manual i`ve attempted to pull the flywheel to check out the points and wires under---it refuses to budge and in fact pulled the head from one of the 3 pulling bolts---Is there a trick to removing the flywheel and why is the spark pulse travelling to the ignition barrel surround?---ANY help would be greatly appreciated.cheers

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

alot of neat tricks and info here. flywheel under points and coils. you have to use grade 8 bolts. it will come off. may take several days.

 

[bktheking]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

What is an ignition barrel surround???? Explain it as best you can.

Second. Put the puller back on and tension it up in your attemp to remove it. Hit the top of the puller with a "deadblow" hammer and it should pop it off, you may have to do it more than once. Or don't, spend days fighting with it. Some guys on here use that method, I do, some say no way you'll take out bearings and and and. Some will admit they do in it in a one on one conversation but never admit it on the forums for fear of verbal retribution. Whatever the case may be you need to get that flywheel off to troubleshoot the issue. It's a risk but in the end if you get the flywheel off and do no damage it's worth it.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Slight language barrier here. What is an "ignition barrell surround?" Do you mean the rubber boot on the spark plug?

You need to check the spark. It should jump a 1/4" open air sharp pointed gap. If it doesn't, off comes the flywheel to see what is wrong. If you use the proper bolts (grade-8), threaded in 7/16", no more and no less, they will pull that flywheel IF you have a decent puller. And when you put it back on, the crank and flywheel tapers MUST be shiny clean and dry, and you MUST use a torque wrench to tighten the nut to 100-105 ft/lbs. Do not ignore that "must" word!!!! Improper flywheel installation is a major engine killer.

 

[mungo]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Thanks for replying tashasdaddy-bktheking and FR---there must be a lotta night owls over there--its 12 noon 17-1-09 here at the mo.The language barrier (maybe typos too) is confusing me too re. tashasdaddy`s post q:alot of neat tricks and info here?. flywheel UNDER? points and coils. you have to use grade 8 bolts. it will come off. may take several days?.lol @ several days! I`ll get some grade 8s tomorrow and try the "deadblow" on the puller centrebolt (with no fear of forum retribution) lol BK.The ignition barrell surround is part of the the original Johnson ignition key surround (a stainless steel plate) fixed to the dash--Thx for the tips too FR--this is a great site!
cheers

 

[bktheking]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

The bottom cylinder isnt firing (pulled the new plugs and tested them on both leads--they`re both ok).The weird thing is that the ignition barrel surround appears to be taking the spark pulse for the bottom cylinder when the engine is running on one cylinder--we have been "booted"by it

What does booted by it mean, shocked by the switch while it's running or beat as in can't figure it out?

If you think the ign. switch is shorted disconnect the harness going to the motor and jump the solenoid, the motor will run without the switch connected, you may have a short in the switch causing spark to be killed at one cylinder. And i'm on EST time here, it's only 9:30pm, watching the Sens beat the Canadians 3-2.

 

[mungo]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Yes BK--booted as in shocked or zapped---Is the Sens your team?

 

[bktheking]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Yes BK--booted as in shocked or zapped---Is the Sens your team?

Thought so, sounds like you have a short in the ignition switch, disconnect it at the motor connection and jump the solenoid, it will run without battery as it's magneto ignition, you may be shorting out one of the "S" connectors on the switch causing no spark on one cylinder. The Senators are my home team, Ottawa is close to where I live, born and raised in Ottawa. But i'm a fairweather fan, when they are out which is almost every season I'm with the Red Wings, lord knows I'm not a Leafs Fan LOL

 

[Willyclay]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Thx for the tips too FR--this is a great site! cheers

Welcome to the iboats.com forum, mate! I agree with you about this site and believe it is the single best resource for recreational boaters. You have already received some help from several of the forum experts, which I am not. I am most impressed that you have a classic boat like the 1958 Bellboy still in use "down under". Good luck with that great old motor.

 

[mungo]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

GREAT advice BK (and ALL) thanks a LOT--I`ll look at the ignition wiring tomorrow before i attack the flywheel removal because if there are more major internal issues lurking within this engine when i finally get it running on both cylinders --I`ll look at another that will suit the era of my boat.Thanks also for your post too Willyclay

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Grreat motor you have there. Fix it up nice and you'll have a lifetime classic.

 

[lindy46]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Not sure if they still used a vacuum cut-out switch on a '63. The older models had the switch on the port side of the motor. It was designed to ground out the bottom cylinder in case of an engine runaway. Switch has two wires and a vacuum hose going to it. If yours has that switch, disconnect and isolate the wire going to the center of the switch and see if you get spark to the lower cylinder. Also, you definitely have a short in that ignition switch. May be just a bad/loose wire, or the switch itself could be fried.

 

[mungo]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Thanks zephyr and Lindy46 and all---The vacuum runaway preventer switch wasn`t connected--i finally managed to pull the flywheel (with grade 8`s bolts and a deadblow hammer)---after seeing what lurked underneath i`m amazed that this engine even ran on one pot---both coils had a thick pinkish insulating material cracking off and one was arcing to earth---ordered new coils today (they also fit a 6HP Johnson too btw) @ $60 each--- two sets of points and two condensers.The magnets in the flywheel look ok. The new generator belt was $120 would you believe.so i found a yamaha one at the local dealers for $20 which will fit with a bit of trimming. I`m also bidding on a 64 Johnson electramatic on ebay as a parts motor--thanks for all your help--cheers

 

[F_R]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Thanks zephyr and Lindy46 and all---The vacuum runaway preventer switch wasn`t connected--i finally managed to pull the flywheel (with grade 8`s bolts and a deadblow hammer)---after seeing what lurked underneath i`m amazed that this engine even ran on one pot---both coils had a thick pinkish insulating material cracking off and one was arcing to earth---ordered new coils today (they also fit a 6HP Johnson too btw) @ $60 each--- two sets of points and two condensers.The magnets in the flywheel look ok. The new generator belt was $120 would you believe.so i found a yamaha one at the local dealers for $20 which will fit with a bit of trimming. I`m also bidding on a 64 Johnson electramatic on ebay as a parts motor--thanks for all your help--cheers

Any idea what Yamaha that belt came off of? That's valuable information.

 

[bktheking]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Look something like this one?

No spark on my 51 Viking 3hp, pulled it yesterday.

 

[mungo]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Any idea what Yamaha that belt came off of? That's valuable information.

Heres a pic FR---I`m going to slit the belt in half lengthways and if i`m careful i`ll have a spare--it will be narrower than the original Johnson belt but is much stronger---fingers crossed!

 

[mungo]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Look something like this one?




No spark on my 51 Viking 3hp, pulled it yesterday.

heres mine BK---ugh!

 

[bktheking]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

heres mine BK---ugh!

Ya they are fooked. I bought mine today for $34.00, OMC coil, I just got back in from the garage and now I have spark, don't forget to line the coil laminates up with the magneto or the flywheel will drag.

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1963 40HP Johnson Electramatic Seahorse ignition problem

Yep, the coils on my old JW-14 looked that good until this afternoon. Now I have two shiney new ones. You payed 60 bucks apiece for coils??? WOW! Where did you get them at? They must have some gold content in them. For just under 99 bucks, I got two coils, a carb kit an impeller and 3 feet of spark plug lead.