1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

[andiemarie]

Hello - we have cleaned the carb - changed the starter on this one, put in new spark plugs - have a great manual for reference. When we have the motor hood off, it starts up pretty well, and as expected needs a little time to warm up. It won't go into full throttle, and lurches slow and fast during operation. When we put the hood back on, it slows down and dies a lot. Even if we leave the door open on the motor hood it does this. Also seems to need to run with the choke on all the time, not just with the first start. Second, we needed to take apart the elec. box, and after we rewired as per the diagram, it doesn't want to shut off when the key is in the off position. There also seems to be a "connection to no-where" that comes off the solinoid, a black 6 inch wire/tube with a square connection on the end that we can't figure out. ANy help appreciated - thanks!!!!!

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Andie - Sounds like you have a few problems, but they're worth tidying up.<br />If the engine is dying with the hood on, there can only be a couple causes for this. One is cracked spark plug wires which should be obvious by examining them. If the cracked part rubs up against the metal part of the hood, they'll arc over.<br />The second, and far more common reason to have trouble with the hood on is an exhaust leak under the hood. The engine chokes on it's own exhaust. While the engine is running, carefully feel around the exhaust cover on the left side of the engine and the base gasket where the engine attaches to the midsection. Once you've located the leak, you can proceed onto to fixing it. Unfortunetly, you'll most likely have to remove the engine from the outboard to fix it. That's not a really big deal though since it's relatively light. Don't forget the two nuts on the front of the engine!<br /><br />Suddenly lurching fast or slow is indicative of an ignition problem. Make sure both sparks can jump a 3/8" gap. If that doesn't turn up anything, try running the engine on one cylinder by grounding out the other's spark plug lead. Note the difference when running the other cylinder. <br /><br />The two smallish black wires coming from the armature plate up underneath the flywheel are connected together by the two 'M' terminal on the keyswitch to stop the engine. Can you trace out those wires and tell us where they go? By the way, if they're mis-wired this could be related to your sudden power loss/gain.<br />1 theroy on that - if you connected one of the magneto leads from the armature plate to the base of the vaccum cutout switch rather than the post in the centre, you would not be able to kill the engine with the keyswitch and also you would loose spark in one cylinder when the saftey switch cuts in.<br /><br />Finally, if you need to choke the engine for it to run, something went wrong in the carb rebuild and adjustment. Make sure you're float level is correct, and dissassemble and clean the carb again. Something is still clogging one of the orifaces.<br /><br />Tell us what you find!

 

[andiemarie]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Originally posted by Paul Moir:<br /> Andie - Sounds like you have a few problems, but they're worth tidying up.<br />If the engine is dying with the hood on, there can only be a couple causes for this. One is cracked spark plug wires which should be obvious by examining them. If the cracked part rubs up against the metal part of the hood, they'll arc over.<br />The second, and far more common reason to have trouble with the hood on is an exhaust leak under the hood. The engine chokes on it's own exhaust. While the engine is running, carefully feel around the exhaust cover on the left side of the engine and the base gasket where the engine attaches to the midsection. Once you've located the leak, you can proceed onto to fixing it. Unfortunetly, you'll most likely have to remove the engine from the outboard to fix it. That's not a really big deal though since it's relatively light. Don't forget the two nuts on the front of the engine!<br /><br />Suddenly lurching fast or slow is indicative of an ignition problem. Make sure both sparks can jump a 3/8" gap. If that doesn't turn up anything, try running the engine on one cylinder by grounding out the other's spark plug lead. Note the difference when running the other cylinder. <br /><br />The two smallish black wires coming from the armature plate up underneath the flywheel are connected together by the two 'M' terminal on the keyswitch to stop the engine. Can you trace out those wires and tell us where they go? By the way, if they're mis-wired this could be related to your sudden power loss/gain.<br />1 theroy on that - if you connected one of the magneto leads from the armature plate to the base of the vaccum cutout switch rather than the post in the centre, you would not be able to kill the engine with the keyswitch and also you would loose spark in one cylinder when the saftey switch cuts in.<br /><br />Finally, if you need to choke the engine for it to run, something went wrong in the carb rebuild and adjustment. Make sure you're float level is correct, and dissassemble and clean the carb again. Something is still clogging one of the orifaces.<br /><br />Tell us what you find!

 

[andiemarie]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Thanks Paul, I won't be back to my motor for two weeks, but will update as soon as I get to it. The exhaust makes sense, it does smoke a lot - the manual said it would - but that really makes sense. The sparkplug wires are all taped up, we will inspect those again - I know the hood presses against them when it's on. We will recheck the wires also that you suggested, we got this used from "unknown sources" but it seems to have a lot of potential - goes well with the 1960 Larson pink playmate boat it's on - we are just itching to get it running smoothly!! Any idea on the connection coming off the solinoid in the back? I it just doesn't seem to connect to anything on the motor at all, and the pictures in my manual seem to cut off right where it would be. my motor is serial number 2168941. Thanks again, I love this site!! We are beginners with motors and would be lost without all the helpful advice.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Your welcome.<br />If the spark plug wires are all taped up, that would be a really good place to start looking. Replacing the wires is a bit of a pain since you have to pull the flywheel, but at least it's not expensive.<br />If you do replace the wire, it's critical to use the proper 7mm metal core spark plug wire rather than automotive spark plug wire. Even though this means a trip to an outboard parts dealer where they'll charge you $3 a foot for the stuff. At least that's what they charge me. <br />The wire that's coming off the solenoid - is it the same size as the battery/starter cables? Does it come off a lug on the solenoid or is it attached to it's mounting? If it comes off a lug, is there any other wires coming from the same lug? If so, where do they go?

 

[andiemarie]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Hi Paul, if you don't mind, I can e-mail you a picture of it - I think that would be easier than me trying to describe it - is that OK?<br />Andie

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Sure thing - feel welcome. <br />Paul.Moir@ns.sympatico.ca

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Message received.<br />Ahhh, the wire comes from the heat/electric choke solenoid. I thought that you ment the starter solenoid! <br />The solenoid acts as a remote override for the automatic choke which is activated by the heat tube coming from the exhaust cover plate on the electric starter side of the engine. The solenoid's resistance should measure around 6.5 ohms to ground. This wire should connect to +12v through a pushbutton on the dash. Or, if your ignition switch has a 'Push to Choke' feature, then connect it to the 'C' terminal on the switch.<br /><br />It's better then messing around at the back of the boat with the choke's manual override.<br /><br />I hope that explains it!

 

[andiemarie]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Thanks Paul, it does make sense. I think either the former owner removed all of the connections or it was never installed - our ignition doesn't have that option - but boy would it be a nice addition, so I will go look for that. Our dash has the ignition, button for the great looking but not working very well double barreled chrome horn (maybe when that was installed they took out the other?? - that could be) and the lights. Anyway, Thanks so much, you've given us a lot of stuff to try, and hopefully it'll all work!! We'll let you know what happens in a few weeks.

 

[andiemarie]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Paul, You are a genious! We patched up the exhaust, (another use for duct tape) and it runs like a charm! The spark plugs and wire were still good, everthing else seems to check out OK now. The only issue we still have is the shut off on the electric start - the ignition itself is still good, none of the wires is (looks) bad, we triple checked the box and wireing with the manual and still can't figure out why it won't cut off when the key is turned off. THanks again for all the help!<br />AndieMarie

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1961 40hp RDS-23 Johnson

Thanks for the update! <br />If the engine kill switch won't work, probably the problem is under the hood. On the vaccum cutout switch (the pressure switch attached to the manifold by a hose) there should be two wires coming off each terminal. Where do they go?<br />It's possible that the keyswitch itself is bad. You can try removing the two wires on the 'M' terminals and connnecting them together manually to see if that stops the engine. Don't touch them with your fingers while the engine is running though - they bite.<br />If you have a meter, test the resistance (ohms scale) between each of the 'M' terminal wires and ground. They should always read almost 0. If there's a broken wire somewhere then they won't. Somtimes the break is in the wires where they lead up to the mag plate, since they're regularly flexed there.<br />Tell us what you find!