1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

[livinfulltilt]

Did some searching, not finding anything on the latest hurdle with my 1955 25hp electric start. Upon installing new coils, wires etc, I went to set the points and have found that they are not contacting the cam surface at all. No matter how much I adjust the screw back and forth the cam side of the points simply will not make contact with the cam surface! Any ideas? I even went so far as to swap in a set of points from a known, running 35hp (with interchangeable parts) and still, nothing. The pads that contact the cam appear to be in excellent condition, the points surfaces are good etc. Cam is also good, have spare parts to check it against and no abnormal wear was found.

Not sure what to do... Don't want to order new points only to run into the same problems.

 

[gm280]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Can you post some pictures of your point/condenser setup for us to see what you are dealing with. Sounds like an interesting problem for sure...

 

[jbjennings]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

You either have the wrong points cam or...
Are you checking gap when the flywheel key is pointed at the rubbing block?
How does the cam look? does it have a nice high side on it?
I've got a cam that I can check for you as far as lift goes....
JBJ

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Ill assume the cam is down low enough for the points to be riding on it properly?

I can remember setting the points once with my timing fixture. I was spinning it and could not get the points to open/close. Was confused, until I saw my twin boys playing catch with the cam. Problem solved.

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

That's what it turned out to be... I didn't realize the cam had moved up slightly and needed to be depressed down. I did that and was lucky enough to find a new set of points and condensers at the local napa. Everything is reassembled now, got her to start up, but it has the "sneeze" and Im leaking fuel out of the front of the carb. Good news is it runs...kind of.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Good, that is a common problem,especially with the motors with the spring under the cam.

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Any advice on the "cough/sneeze" issue? So far I have new coils, new points, new condensers, I trimmed back the spark plug wires and verified there was no corrosion, and new champion plugs. The lower unit on this motor is great, has all new seals and orings, new waterpump, and all the internals looked great. Mainly just the sneeze issue and carb leaking fuel out of the front after priming it with the bulb (motor has fuel pump mod). I do have a carb kit on hand...

What causes the sneeze? I know I read about it somewhere but I cant find it now.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

It is called a lean sneeze. It is caused by a lean condition in the fuel delivery system.....that is, too much air, or not enough fuel. The fuel to air mixture must be just right, which is why they had adjustable needles.

Try richening the low speed neele 1/4 turn. That is, turn it to the left, or counter clockwise 1/4 turn and see if it improves.

May also be air intrusion. This could be at the gaskets, carb body, fuel line, fittings, etc....

The leaking is likely due to a faulty needle and seat, or sinking float. This will be remedied when you clean/rebuid the carb.

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Ok, seems like a good place to start. Here are a couple things I made note of while I was in this motor:

1. Gasket between carb and intake *seemed* like it wasn't there. ie, does this need some kind of sealant (rtv etc) like a vehicle or is it designed to be a compression gasket that doesn't use any sealant?

2. There was a pin hole leak at my priming bulb. Not sure if it is significant to cause any issues since the bulb would be hard after priming and felt like it was holding pressure.

3. The glass bowl next to the carb does not stay full. What is normal here?

4. Needles *appear* to be in great shape, no deformity from overtightening. I did play with the low speed a little bit when trying to keep the motor running. Turning the low speed did have a positive and negative effect depending on how much/direction I turned it.

5. I did install a homemade tiller arm, however, it functions with no issues EXCEPT where should I be at lowest throttle? With the throttle turned back as low as I can get it where should that little wheel be in conjunction with the 2 marks on the magneto assembly? Are those 2 marks equal to the "start" position? Can post pics if needed...

6. I have what appears (to me) to be some kind of electric or vacuum choke under the carb. Unfortunately, if it is vacuum, it may not be functioning correctly since the rubber bellow is torn. I do have a manual choke that I can use. Is this an issue?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

1. No sealer on intake side of motor.

2. Could be. Any air leak is a bad air leak. The bulb will not stay firm. It is only firm when the carb bowl fills and the needle seats. While running it is simply a 1 way valve.

3. Normal

4. Try starting a 1.5 turns out from lightly seated. Then fine tune from there, in water, in gear.

5. Ill need a pic of this!

6. Manually choking it is fine.

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Ok, thanks! I plan on messing with it a little tomorrow while the neighbors are at work. I think the first thing Im going to start with will be ensuring the fuel lines have no air leaks. My intuition tells me this is a fuel delivery issue, so Il be looking at lines, fuel pump, carb etc. Ill follow up some time tomorrow afternoon with my findings/pics etc. Thanks for the pointers and help, I appreciate it!

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Intuition proved to be correct. Heres what I did:

1. Swapped fuel pump with a known working unit on my 35hp big twin
2. Disconnected all fuel lines, trimmed down to fresh hose, installed all new hose clamps at every point
3. Swapped fuel line connection (between motor and gas tank fuel line)

She is purring like a kitten now, but there is still one issue I need to address and need a little help figuring out...

How do you adjust the idle? It seems as if the proper idle is at (or very near) to the end of my throttle range when I turn the handle on my tiller. Is there a way to correct this so when I am at idle I don't have the throttle handle in its seemingly "wide open" position? I will post pictures of that little throttle wheel shortly to show where it is at when my handle is at wide open.

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Here is what I am dealing with:

1. Here is a pic when my tiller is at the lowest possible throttle at the handle. Notice that the wheel is not even in contact with the plate...

2. This is wide open throttle at the tiller handle. Just past the 2 markings, but cannot turn any farther.

3. Here is a pic of the gears at the throttle linkage in the wide open position. This is the positioning of the linkage gears when the wheel is just past the 2 markings as seen in picture two.

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

The only thing I am able to find so far in reference to this is that it is a cam adjustment. Is this correct? If so, where do I adjust it? Anyone have pics?

Thanks!

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

And I think I have found the "problem". I forgot that you cant go any further with the throttle unless it is in gear.

As Homer Simpson would say... "DOH!"

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

I was just about to type......do you have it in gear!? lol

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Lol, It took me a little while, but I finally figured out what was going on. I just got her put on the transom and Im about to put her in the water and see how she does! She starts beautifully, takes one blip on the starter button and she fires every time! Idle is nice and smooth, provided I stay towards the top of the idle range during starting, but I think that may clear up once she is ran for a while. I really need to get the needles dialed, which I am about to do. Im looking forward to getting her out there, as this is the first overhaul I was able to successfully complete!

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

And... Back to the drawing board. Got the motor out on the water tonight, starts great, idles great, does not like running in gear. I did find the sweet spot for the high speed needle, however, the shift handle was popping in gear (almost like a lean sneeze). I am assuming this is the clutch dog going bad?

So, I tinkered with it a bit and adjusted the shift handle so that when engaged in forward it is engaging as far forward as it possibly can. My question is, is this the clutch dog going? Also, I have a spare RD-17 for parts and a 57 big twin with a known to be good lower unit clutch dog.

1. How difficult is a clutch dog swap?

2. Can the clutch dog from my 57 big twin 35 be swapped into the 55 Johnson 25hp?

3. Also, are there any other areas I should look at that could be causing this issue?

Thanks!

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

Was it jumping out of gear, then banging when it re engaged? Symptoms of a bad dog. Wont know for sure until you open her up. Check the shift rod coupler first though to ensure it is aligned.

It is not a bad job at all. You will need some spaghetti seal and 3M 847 as well to reseal the gearcase after you are done. You may be able to simply flip the dog if the reverse side is still good.

 

[livinfulltilt]

Re: 1955 Johnson 25 electric start - Points problems?

The reverse had no issues at all. I was putting around in reverse most of the time while messing with the low speed haha. It wasn't popping out of gear while in Forward, it was just acting like a lean sneeze, but the shift handle would jump when it happened. I loosened the nut and screw at the shift handle and realigned it. When I tightened the shift handle back down, I made sure that I adjusted it so that the rod it is attached to has maximum travel into forward. I then backed the boat down the ramp still on the trailer and put it in gear, ran it while it was against the trailer and didn't seem to get that shudder at all. I guess it will have to wait until tomorrow so I can try it out again on the water and see if I cant get her up to speed.