175XR2 Sport Jet - Strange Starting Problems - need help

Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
7
1997 Searay Searaydar FX16, with Merc SJ 175 XR2 that was rebuilt in 07 with a 2003 powerhead.

Dual Carb (not efi)

Last 2 summer seasons it ran well, except for sometimes it would be a bit finicky to start, toggling the throttle worked.

Over the winter(SC coast) I started engine about once every 3 weeks.

I did not seafoam the gas.

This season, from the first time out, been having problems.
For awhile, had some hesitations when opening to full throttle.
Perhaps varnish/gum deposits, used carb cleaner and seafoam in gas, after 4-5 hours of running, no longer having hesitation problems


However, having serious starting problems, only with boat in the water.

Starts almost perfectly on the trailer, cold or warm.

In the water, it's a different story. Very difficult to start:

When engine still cold, if I disengage the throttle and play it, then sometimes it will start.

Once I go out for 10 minutes plus, with engine warm, It no longer starts no matter what.

Been stuck out twice (sea tow to the rescue).

Varnish/Gum: I thought this maybe the problem, cleaned carbs with carb cleaner, and put a can of B-12 in tank.

Water in fuel: I poured fuel from tank into a cup, does not seam to be any water. Will install a fuel/water separator anyways.

Electric Idle fuel pump: Works fine. I installed a primer bulb anyways.

Fuel filter: It was pretty dirty, replaced with new.

New Plugs

Carbs were running a bit rich, leaned them up a bit (idle mixture screw).

Idle Enrichment Valve: Checked and seems to work fine, pumps fule and clicks.

Batteries are strong, charging system works.

Since all of the above has been done, it starts a "bit" better in the water, but still won't start when warm.

So, I'm still at: Engine fires up great on the trailer, idles a tad over 1000, yet starts very poorly when IN THE WATER only,
and is almost impossible to start IN THE WATER and warm.

Any help or ideas to diagnose or fix the problem is appreciated.

I'm wondering, could it be the impeller adds just enough load in the water, that the engine does not start?

Could a compression problem cause this?

Idle Thermal valve?

In the water, when started, the engine runs very very well, 5400 rpm at wop and running smooth.

The strange but important key is it starts fine out of water, and not when in the water.

Even when it does start in the water, for the most part, it won't hold it's idle for long, if at all. (must play with throttle)

And once warm (10 minutes running at 400 rpm+), when turned off, it is almost impossible to restart.

Thank you guys, any advice or priority diagnosis steps is appreciated.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
7
Re: 175XR2 Sport Jet - Strange Starting Problems - need help

Bump - Any help appreciated, just a merc 175 sport jet that starts on the trailer, becomes finicky in the water, and won't start at all in the water once warm.

Any diagnosis suggestions appreciated.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
7
Re: 175XR2 Sport Jet - Strange Starting Problems - need help

Main post edited and tightened up

On trailer, I checked idle fuel pump, and it works fine while cranking, so I'm assuming the pump will deliver fuel to carbs just fine when in the water too.

Still have not retested in the water, hoping for a few ideas or diagnosis steps
from here, any help appreciated.
 

CharlieB

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: 175XR2 Sport Jet - Strange Starting Problems - need help

The big difference between running on the trailer and in the water is the amount of exhaust backpressure added by the water.

Idle mixture must be FATTER once in the water. Initial adjustment is 1 1/2 turns out from LIGHTLY seated, then adjusted IN THE WATER to best idle speed PLUS almost 1/8 turn. The real test is a rapid WOT load, ANY hesitation, bog, lean cough, is caused by too lean an idle mixture, add almost an additional 1/16 turn OUT and retest until all traces of hesitation are gone.

Hopefully you disassembled and thouroughly cleaned the carbs and jets, spraying with carb cleaner won't get the mineral deposits out of the jets.

Also remember, a lean cyl melts the piston, so you want to make SURE that jets are squeeky clean and float levels are correct, fuell pump is in great shape, fuel line, fittings and dip tube in the tank, ALL up to the task of supplying plenty of fuel.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
7
Re: 175XR2 Sport Jet - Strange Starting Problems - need help

THANK YOU Charlie!

Very helpful, I will first bring the carbs to be professionally cleaned,
then proceed as indicated for proper idle mixture in water.

Thanks again.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
7
Re: 175XR2 Sport Jet - Strange Starting Problems - need help

The big difference between running on the trailer and in the water is the amount of exhaust backpressure added by the water.

Idle mixture must be FATTER once in the water. Initial adjustment is 1 1/2 turns out from LIGHTLY seated, then adjusted IN THE WATER to best idle speed PLUS almost 1/8 turn. The real test is a rapid WOT load, ANY hesitation, bog, lean cough, is caused by too lean an idle mixture, add almost an additional 1/16 turn OUT and retest until all traces of hesitation are gone.

Hopefully you disassembled and thouroughly cleaned the carbs and jets, spraying with carb cleaner won't get the mineral deposits out of the jets.

Also remember, a lean cyl melts the piston, so you want to make SURE that jets are squeeky clean and float levels are correct, fuell pump is in great shape, fuel line, fittings and dip tube in the tank, ALL up to the task of supplying plenty of fuel.


Just a report back:

Carbs were taken off, professionally cleaned by merc specialist, new gaskets, set at 1.5 turns from lightly seated.

Put em back back on, she fired right up, and idled very well out of water, around 1300-1400

Will do in the water testing next, per Charlie's specs above.
 

Mabou

Recruit
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1
Re: 175XR2 Sport Jet - Strange Starting Problems - need help

Just a report back:

Carbs were taken off, professionally cleaned by merc specialist, new gaskets, set at 1.5 turns from lightly seated.

Put em back back on, she fired right up, and idled very well out of water, around 1300-1400

Will do in the water testing next, per Charlie's specs above.

What did you find in the end ?
 
Top