150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

KNOTTY THOTS

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Rebuilding powerhead!I rebuild this last spring and it went again late last summer. The machine shop said it was running lean. Shop said two cylinders need machining the others honed out fine. I Need 3 pistons. (one has a scuff). It's the other parts I need to know what to replace. Last year I thought it was the oil pump as the flange was cracked and the "O" Ring was crushed. The cylinder nearest # 5 had the most damage it was machined the rest where honed. I replaced 3 pistons, oil pump and gaskets and reasembled using Yamaha service manuals.I have tryed to read most of the posts from Rodbolt, Rob and others.I have read about suggested parts replacment of, Pistons, gaskets,main rodbolts,main bearings and oxggen sensor. I am also need to replace the Labyringth rings as I found one broken. This may have happened when removing the crankshaft.The main bearings look in great shape, but will replace if it is best. I think the problem is the oxygen sensor!Any help would be great.<br /><br />P.S. Any thoughts on what would be leaning out this engine. I have redone all fuel lines in case it was fuel starved at higher RPM'S.
 

rodbolt

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

looks like a couple of patch jobs have been done and most likly another on the way,<br /> can ya post a model number as the 150 HP motor was made in at least 7 configurations.
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

Rodbolt the model number is VX150LRZ a 2001 OX66. The first rebuild was a broken crank. Fixed under warranty ist year.Last year I rebuilt it. I found old damage along with the lean out condition of scuffed pistionS and cylinders. The told me they replaced the power head but I think the dealer fixed the old one, but I could not prove it. I could not find the numbers Yamaha said should be on the block.
 

deejaycee_2000

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

that sounds dodgy, they definately just fixed the old one, sounds like you found yourself a dud motor ... good luck
 

rodbolt

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

the VX indicates its a vmax ox66.<br /> has the vapor seperator been serviced? has the injectors been sent out for testing/cleaning?<br /> has the fuel rail pressure been tested? has the fuel system vacum been checked? has the low pressure pumps been replaced with the rebuild? has the O2 sensor output been properly tested according to the 3 tech bullitens out on it?<br /> its a fairly simple system but it does require specific maint. ya cannot assume anything is ok. it must be confirmed ok or you buy pistons.<br />never seen a dud motor but I have seen a lot of dud wrench turners.
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

The fuel system had not been serviced but I will do that know. Right now the intake is removed with the fuel rail and vapor seperator still attached.Can any test be done before the engine is reassembled other than sending out the injectors for servicing. I will pick up a Mity Vac and check fuel pumps but will rebuild them any way. And I found the test for the vapor seperator but not for the fuel rail. As far as the oxygen sensor I cleaned and checked it as per the manual last year but have not seen the technical bullitens or know haw to get a copy. It would be nice to test it the right way. Thanks for your help!
 

rodbolt

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

I send my injectors to Flagship Marine, I imagine there is an injector service center near you. its the same basic setup a car uses.<br />go to your local dealer and ask to browse the tech guides for the past 5 years.<br />only way to test the rail is with a fuel pressure test guage that screws onto the schrader fitting on the VST.<br /> blown pistons are 99% of the time an indication of a failed subsystem, normally cooling or fuel.
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

Thanks for the information. I will pull the injectors this weekend and advise what I find.
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

Update: I sent out the Fuel Injectors for service. Filters looked good just a little fine grit. They said that they did have a build up of varnish, and did not have a good cone shaped pattern. They said I should use more fuel stablizer. I have also tested the Pressure Regular at 25 kPa and it was fine. I did find, about 3mm to 4mm of black oil or dirt built up on the outside of the domed filter where the Pressure Regulator attaches to the Vapour Separator.The High Pressure Fuel Pump Filter had some dirt particals but very little. Both fuel pumps tested to 11.4 PSI with no loss of pressure, this was done the 3 ways listed in the service manual. I called the local Yamaha dealer for new gaskets and diaphragms to repace them anyway but they said that Yamaha only sell the filters as a unit. They also did not have any technical bulletins on Oxygen Sensors. I went on line and got the part numbers and have contacted two other dealers. That was Friday but have not had a reply yet!I have also tested both thermostats. They opened at 140deg "F" as per the Spec. Still working on as many tests as can be done while engine is apart.
 

rodbolt

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

trust me the tech bullitens exist, at most the places I work for all techs are required to read then initial and date them as they come in.<br /> we keep them in large notebooks.<br /> the VST filter is sold seperately as are the low pressure pump parts, however at 38 bucks I just install new ones.<br /> sounds like your dealer is dodgy maybe.<br />you can look up all your parts on the yamaha parts and accesories website.<br /> then you will have an idea of what is and is not avalible.
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

The local Yamaha dealer wanted $70.00 cdn each for the new fuel pumps he had in stock. Same one who did not have the tech info. I did find the part numbers on the web,and down loaded drawings with part numbers.If it has a seperate part number will it be sold seperatly? I did find an artical on the web from "bass boats" on testing the oxygen sensor two ways, but will wait till I read the bullitens.
 

rodbolt

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

yep, if it has a part number its avalible by itself.<br />te only reason i rarely rebuild the low pressure pumps is the parts cost 24 dollars or so and at 75 per hour it does not take long my customer has a brand new one anyway.
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

Has anybody purchased parts from boats.net. I went on line and got part numbers, drawings and prices from the site. Most of the prices are less than half of what I have been quoted. One of the big parts I may have to replace, the oxygen sensor is $289.00 Today I was quoted $619. big savings!
 

jerkin

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

Boats.net is a great place to buy parts. I've used them a few times and always had a great experience. Really nice people there, I reccomend them highly. Great prices and fast shipping.<br /><br /> Scott
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

I leaning toward buying the parts from boats.net. The only problem is it will be hard to go into a local dealer and get the technical bulletins when I'm not buying parts. I am going to buy an oxygen sensor anyways but I need to make sure it was the problem. I tested it as per the Yamaha Manual. Pre test the volt meter said it was .003v. When put into the flame of the torch it jumped around depending how it was turned into the flame. The maximum was .856v. But turning it slighty it would drop to .432v. I have read in the forms that this is not the best way to test it but I can't perform the other test I found at "Bass and Walleye Boats" untill it is running.The artical called "Sevicing Yamaha's Super 'Sniffer'" by Bill Grannis it says "to test the sensor without dissasembling the cover , sensor and housing is to hook up a Yamaha test harness (part # YB-06767) or adapt a way to have a digital volt meter to attach to the gray and black wires to the oxygen sensor. Set the scale at 1-volt range. The other wires from the sensor are for the heating element and should be checked for proper resistance and voltage imput. Remove the front air silencer cover and run the engine until it comes up to temerature, at least 120 deg. before testing. The votage should show .3 and .6 volts DC for a good sensor and will vary continuously as the computer (ecu) adjust the mixture. A lower voltage reading indicates a leaner mix and a richer mixtures raises the votage output from the sensor. If the votage remains near 0.9 volts the oxygen sensor probe is showing signs of becoming fouled. While the engine is idling , carefully use your finger to cover the air bleed hole in the top of the cylinder throttle plate and watch for a significant change in voltage readings. By blocking the air bleed hole, that cylinder becomes very rich briefly as a result in reduced air flow, and the ECU should respond immediately to lean out the the fuel to air mixture. The votage should first increase because of the initial richer mix, then become lower as thew ECU leans out the fuel mixture to compensate. As you remove your finger from the hole in the throttle plate , the incresed air causes a momentary lean condition and the sensors votage output decreases in response. You should observe an increased volt reading as the ECU richens the fuel to stablize the engine. IF any of the changes in votage are very suggish or nonexistent, the oxygen sensor may be fouled and in need of cleaning or replacement." This is just part of the artical.It also shows basic operation and trouble shooting.I found this on the web, you should read the whole thing. I only buy two boating books DIY Marine Maint. and Bass and Walleye Boats. And I don't fish alot.
 

rodbolt

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

thats a valid test, it also MUST be done with the gearcase submerged.<br /> the flame test is a teat on a boar hog.<br />why should I read it? I test them everyweek.<br /> aI tested them just about like the article said and the tech bullitens some years before either came out. its a basic 4 wire O2 sensor that has been in service for 25 years or so doing the same thing in many makes of automobiles.<br /> EFI is not magic nor voodoo yet takes some very specific operating paremeters, lose a paremeter and its possible to blow a motor.<br /> all that O2 sensor does is give information to the ECU about the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. the ECU reacts, the ECU does knot know if its a valid reading but will richen or lean the mix anyway.<br />above 4000 it can cause the ECU to lean out enough to wipe a piston.<br />too much or to little fuel rail pressure can create crazy problems as well.
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

Just received the block back from the machine shop. Two cylinders on the starboard side machined for oversized pistons. The rest were honed out. Used a pressure washer to wash the block, then used compressed air to clean out passages, then into warm soap and TSP. Scrubbed every opening and then pressure washed it again. It was then dryed and sprayed with non drip oil and wrapped in a clean sheet. The heads looked good but I made sure they are flat by sanding them down on thick plate glass with 400 grit paper spray glued to the surface.The starboard side took a bit a work, but they look great.Still cleaning the rest of the parts. The new parts in on Wednesday.
 

KNOTTY THOTS

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Re: 150 Yamaha 3rd rebuild - help!!!

Last night I tryed the pistons in cylinders. The machine shop said, only the oversized pistons will fit in the machined cylinders. I want to make sure i have the right pistons. Before rebuild:<br />#2 - 64D02 #1 - 68F01<br />#4 - 64D02 #3 - 68F00<br />#6 - 64D02-25 #5 - 68F00<br />New pistons:<br />64D02 68F01-25<br /> 68F01<br />The new 64D02 is oversized and fits in # 4& 6. Number 68F01-25 is oversized and only fits in #1. And #68FO1 fits in # 3 & 5. Do the numbers match to where they should go.Also ordered new rod bolts when I ordered other parts from boats.net. Parts list shows part # 90109-08087-00 is a replacement from the previous part number but they are not even close to fitting.Are they for a new style connecting rod?
 
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