140 85 VRO rebuild concern

[Sal G]

I am reconsidering a rebuild after a mechanic lined up to the job backed out. Other mechanics<br />fold me that I'd be wasting my $$$ on an 18 year old engine while a couple of others didn't suggest there would be a problem and it was worth fixing. I'm leaning towards doing the rebuild and I'm curious on how long they last.

 

[ob]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

SalG,If the only thing wrong with your engine is the VRO pump it is certainly worth rebuilding it.Did the mechanic point out any other issues that prompted him to tell you that the engine wasn't worth it?Did you have a compression test performed?Has the engine been run recently?<br /><br />Edit: Sorry ,I misread your post.I'm not all there today.

 

[93bronco]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

it is not a waste of time or money to rebuild it.<br />have you checked the price of a new motor ???<br />dont be suprised if your mech. wants to take the motor of your hands.<br />-<br />dont get me wrong, they arent gold - but they do run great when up to par.<br />and you still can get parts for it.<br />-<br />get a manual & go for it!!!<br />if not get a PH from this site, transfer all the stuff yourself.<br />then take it & have the timing set.<br />its not that hard to do - if you have any mechanical abilities.

 

[Sal G]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

Thanks- you put my mind at ease. It needs a rebore due to piston /ring faiure that scored a cylinder. I'll definitely replace all the pistons and rings since it has to be opened up. <br />This engine- believe it or not- still starts right up and she ran great right up to the piston <br />failure.

 

[93bronco]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

if the rest of the pistons & cylinders are good, have them cleaned up(honed) along with using new rings on pistons.<br />no sense in spending money on something that doesnt to be replaced.

 

[P.V.]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you need/should to update to the latest VRO/OIS pump. It will entale changing from the orginal no wire/3 wire pump to the later 4 wire pump. And you'll have the latest electronics on the oil side of the pump. The latest (read correct) pump will come with the harness. If it doesn't, the dealer order'd the wrong one! This new pump is vastly superior to an orginal/rebuild in this situation!!!!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

hello <br /> the 85 140 looper was a very nice engine and as long as salt water corrosion is not a factor then I would say rebuild it but do the entire job, IE all pistons, cyl's bored replace all wristpin bearings rod bearings and at least the lower main ball bearing. A friend of mine has the equipment to change the upper main bearing without replacing the housing.you may want to dissasemble and inspect the lower unit at this time as well. using new seals and waterpump on reassymbly. dont cut corners and the results will be worth the money. if you do not have the self test alarm horn now would be a good time to upgrade and look at the oil tank pickup filter as well. if the oil tank uses the old super hard vinyl lines this would be another good 80 dollar upgrade on a new style tank. if you do any of it do it all carbs and everything. the object here is to recondition it not just patch it. remember most piston to wall clearences are less than .003" so honeing a used cyl and using old pistons may leave you with a fresh worn out motor. <br />anyway good luck and always have fun . and remember it only costs money if it does not work.

 

[Sal G]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

OK- sold on rebuild. Is it true that rebuilds<br />generally last only 4-5 seasons(what I;ve been told), or is that just nonsense. Seems to me you are basically starting with a new engine ( piston/combustion/compression wise) with 0 hours. Thanks for your response

 

[Old Salty Dawg]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

Hello Sal G. I would seriously consider whether or not you would want to sink that kind of money in to an engine that never had a good rep for longevity. A 140 HP squeezed out of 4 cylinders has never been the recipe for long life. These engines use a piston that in my opinion was incorrectly designed. The top ring was located too close to the rim of the piston crown. In time failure becomes inevitable due to this design. Go for later model V6 150.<br />Regards,<br />Old Salty Dawg

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

They do have a better designed piston for those motors now, that has the ring located farther down from the crown. As in anything, longevity is only as good as it is built and the parts used.

 

[Solittle]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

Sal - I got 10 years out of my last rebuild on one motor and the other is still running 10 years after it was rebuilt. And I run in the salt stuff.

 

[Old Salty Dawg]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

Hello Rick D.<br />Can you elaborate on this piston design? I was under the impression that this problem was never rectified to the point where you could get long life out of this engine. Previously most of these failures were blamed on the VRO, when in fact it was not. From what I have understood, it was a combination of that piston design and oil that did not like the grades of fuel that one was purchasing. Rings sticking, resulting in combustion heat swelling the piston skirt to the point of seizure was one result.<br />Plese reply<br />Old Salty Dawg

 

[Sal G]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

Thanks to all that replied.<br />Great forum! Great education!

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

There was a problem with the original pistons from OMC. The ring grooves were made too close to the crown of the piston. At high RPM's the ring would break though the piston from the groove that was only an eighth of an inch below the crown of the piston. They were suppose to correct this problem with the pistons after 1980 Models by lowering the ring groove. Some have them, some don't!

 

[DJ]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

OSD,<br /><br />VRO failure does not wipe out ONE piston. The fuel/oil is mixed BEFORE it hits the carburetors.<br /><br />LOOK AT THE CARBS!!!<br /><br />I need someone to explain to me how a VRO failure can cause the situation-decribed?

 

[93bronco]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

im suprised that dh hasent responded to this yet.<br />anyway rebuild it , go with the premix pump<br />#438402 @ $160.<br />-<br />also try this he has a complete kit for rebuilding<br /> web page <br />dont know if that price is worth it, but posted just to get a price comparison. <br />-<br />its up to you , but i would do it - especially if you have gotten good service from them til now.<br />the new motors have to much computer tech added into them for me.<br />these motors are pretty basic and very easy to work on.

 

[Old Salty Dawg]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

DJohns19<br />When replying, please consider ALL of the facts! VRO failure usually damges all of the pistons...it doesn't take a professor to figure that one out! <br />Most failures in these engines occur in one or two cylinders. In the ones that I have rebuilt recently, the pistons were scored on the exhaust side only...Intake side, pristine! <br />This failure pointed to a lean condition, resulting from damaged reeds. The next engine I saw had the top compression ring broken and laying in the exhaust port. This was MECHANICAL failure!<br />Next time consider the whole picture.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

Djohns is correct about the VRO NOT causing only one cylinder to fail and during the overhaul it would be wise to look into a lean running carb. causing the failure, as this is usually the problem when one cylinder goes. But, this engine did have a faulty piston/ring set-up that looks like it was the problem. Best to check everything when doing a rebuild. The cause must be found before running it again. I would surely rebuild the Carbs during rebuild if it were mine! The reeds are a given.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 140 85 VRO rebuild concern

Great little motors. There are several things to note. First, make sure you find out the cause of the original failure. The damaged piston is the result, not the cause.<br /><br />The 1985's were a "small bore" looper -- 3.500" standard bore. You can bore it to the "big bore" spec of 3.685". You should upgrade to the big bore heads at that point.<br /><br />If you choose to go to the big bore style, you can also use the pistons from the 1993 and newer V6 200/225 looper. You could also use the rods from that motor. The pistons and rods were lighter and your V4 will idle fantastic.<br /><br />Dont worry about the high ring issue. That was only on the crossflows and, as mentioned, were not produced after 1979.<br /><br />Good luck!