Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

[swimmin' for shore]

I did the search on this, and the answers aren't clear enough for my lowered intelligence. They are actually crystal clear, but I prefer not to make a mistake and buy a new motor, either. So let's ask it one more time.<br />On an 18hp fastwin, 1957 or 58-I started her up. No water. You've all taught me to check it immediately, so I shut it down right away. I got the manual, got the waterpump, and commenced trying to take it apart. I removed the bolts, took off the portside access plate and removed the bottom hex nut from the...shaft...The lower unit dropped down about 1 1/2 inch or so, but that's as far as it went. Didn't seem to want to pull, pry, twist, or turn off of there. Is it just sticky? Am I safe to put a pry bar in there? What's next, fellas?

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Did you disconnect the shift linkage? I'm not sure how that's done on that 18hp, but someone will be along to tell you, I'm sure.<br /><br />That's probably the remaining thing.

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

I thought that that hex nut I removed was supposed to be the shift linkage?

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

OK, yes, that was it. I missed that somehow. Look in there and see whether the shift shaft is free.<br /><br />If this lower unit has dropped 1.5", then it's almost free. Check to see whether the driveshaft is moving from the top or trying to pull out of the gearcase. If you can't see well, while pushing and pulling the lower unit, mark the drive shaft with a sharpie and see if it is changing position relative to the lower unit. It should come out from the top, not the gearcase.<br /><br />Similarly, the water tube from the water pump should come out of the pump, not out of the powerhead.<br /><br />If both are coming out OK, then a little twisting and prying (with a soft thing, like a broom handle, should finish the job. You're far enough apart to have freed the driveshaft from the powerhead splines and the water tube from the water pump housing.<br /><br />The hold up could be the shift rod not coming free from that clamp. Look at the shift lever. If it's pulled back into the reverse position, try wiggling it forward and see if that frees the shaft from the clamp.

 

[krb113]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Not to be real picky here on this, but twice now you have mentioned the hex "nut". This should be a "bolt" that screws into the keeper. If someone has put a "bolt and nut" in and you have only taken the "nut" off and not slipped the bolt out the other end, (yes it sounds goofy, but I have run into goofier things) then it won't slip out until you take the bolt out.

 

[geekomatic]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Dittos KB.It better be a bolt,otherwise,somebody's replaced it with something that should not be there.The whole lower unit,with driveshaft and the water tube, should drop down a couple of inches by itself, just like you said? Right?<br />You gotta give it a little help.Twist it,turn it (gently) a little and it loosens the shaft up from the splines way up in the powerhead. I actually turned the flywheel a tiny bit and the thing fell right out.It's mainly held in at this point by all of the accumulated goop around the shaft and the keeper.It'll pop out like nobody's business on ya, so be careful you don't drop the thing on the cement under it, otherwise you end up with a bent lower unit.I actually anticipated this and put a nice heavy towel under it.Yay for me.Oh, and make sure the thing is in neutral when you do all of this.If you have to use something to pry,a broomstick does the trick.Anything but metal!<br />I have the same motor,with the electric start (times two).1958 Fast Twin 18hp.<br />And by the way, I have everybody whipped hands down as far as lower intelligence when it comes to outboards, so you have no chance of whipping me on that aspect, so don't even think about it.. If brains were dynamite, I don't think I could blow my nose. The only reason I could mention these suggestions is because I have two of these things and have done exactly what you're doing now.Good luck, Dude. Keep everybody posted.By the way, when you put it back together, there's a tiny little rubber o-ring that goes right on top of the driveshaft above the splines.DON'T forget to replace it if it's not there,which it won't be.ACE hardware.18 cents.

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Hey, thanks to all of you for the suggestions. Yes, it was a bolt. Speaking of lower intelligence....I make that mistake sometime. Comes of getting 3 1/2 hours of sleep every night. On the other hand, you're right that odder things have happened. <br />Johnson/Evinrude dealer here was closed yesterday. I'm hoping to get that motor apart tonight and replace the waterpump. I'll put the O-ring back in place, and thank you for that tip. And I'd read in the manual to brace the lower unit, so I'll make sure to do that, too. I have an aluminum boat that's just screaming for this motor, and it's salmon season. I'm in a bit of a rush now. Thanks again, guys. Hopefully, I'll be able to post some success in the next day or two.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

More than likely one of two things is happening.<br /><br />Most likely - the driveshaft is stuck in the crankshaft and the 1.5-inches of travel you're getting is the driveshaft moving inside the gearcase until the waterpump drive pin hits the top of the pump housing.<br /><br />Second shot - waterpump tube is stuck. <br /><br />Either issue will likely need gently applied brute force. Use some wooden wedges to pry the gearfoot away from the housing. The pump pin may force its way past the pump housing if the driveshaft is stuck. Then you'll need to yank the shaft out of the crank somehow - depends on how "stuck" it is. If it's the water tube, it'll eventually just let go, sliding out of one of the grommets.<br /><br />Good luck!<br /><br />- Scott

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Alright. I got the lower unit off last night. Chinewalker hit it on the head. Onward to the next issues.<br />First, the old impeller was crumbled. No major surprise. The whole waterpump looked like hammered butt, although that's to be expected, also. All 3 retaining screws broke when I turned them-nice-Following the Seloc manual, I pried the pump out of there, and 2 of the screws turned out with a big set of pliers. The third one broke off flush, though. So. I don't want to redneck this thing, so tell me what's right. Are they just retaining screws? Can I get away with just using the two on the new pump, or do I need to go down to my local machine shop to have it drilled out and retapped? Let's do this once. Once is all that my head can handle right now. <br />I got the O-ring. Pieces of it were still there. Pain in the royal behind to get that lower unit over the new ring, but I can. Thanks for that piece of advice.<br />Last issue for the time being, and then I'm going home with all of this new knowledge. How is the impeller supposed to go in there? In other words, if I were lying on the ground, looking up at my waterpump, do the legs of the impeller go clockwise or counterclockwise? Rather confusing here, judging by the manual. Maybe I'm a little slow, but hey! A month ago, I was just a guy who'd take it in to a mechanic and let him deal with it. I just can't afford 70 to 90 bucks an hour anymore. Talk to me accordingly. I'm in the military, so I'm used to being talked down to by now.

 

[Goodoleboy]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

The impeller turns clockwise. Same as your fly wheel and drive shaft. Little dish washing soap will help get it to slide in. Or if you wish a little vasaline also works.<br /><br />Good Luck!

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

By the way, and I'm sorry to be reposting with something that I should have mentioned before-<br />With the waterpump came the little itty bitty pin. I know it's supposed to go in somewhere, or they wouldn't have included it, right? I even see the hole where I think it should go, in the waterpump...plate...It doesn't go there, though. It's too short to sit in there, so it just falls through the hole. Someone's going to correct me here. The rest of you-stop laughing at me!

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Hi SFS,<br /> The pump housing needs all three screws - they not only hold the pump housing in place, they hold it flat for a good seal. If the pump housing is cocked at all it'll suck air, not water. Drill out the old screw, tap it and install a new screw. I usually grease the threads a bit to prevent future breakage. <br /> You need a pin of some sort to drive the impeller. If you have the old one, that should work fine. It ought to be stainless steel whatever you use.<br /> The impeller will self-right as soon as the motor is started, so it really doesn't matter which way it goes in. I would use dishsoap as a lube - not vaseline, as that may react with the rubber - haven't seen it happen, but have heard about it.<br /> Be sure to grease the driveshaft splines and install a new o-ring at the top of the driveshaft before reassembly into the powerhead so you won't have that problem again...<br /><br />- Scott

 

[krb113]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

I am just now reading thru all of this as I don't get on here often enough. You may already know what you need to know.<br /><br />As they mentioned the impeller goes clockwise IF you are looking at it from up top of the motor. OPPOSITE if you are looking from the bottom as you mentioned.<br /> <br />The pin is (LOL) no, just kidding;the pin that you are probably talking about is maybe 3/32" diam. 1/4" long max.? It's the pin that goes into the driveshaft to drive the impeller. If there is one already there still, save it in your J/RUDE toolbox for a cloudy day.<br /><br />About the screws for the pump housing, what Chinewalker said!!

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

This pin thing is not funny! No, I got it yesterday. I also took the lower unit in to a machine shop to have it drilled and retapped. I'm still learning, but know now that I should have used heat to remove the screws and I wouldn't be waiting on my lower unit. <br />I'll probably get this wrapped back up tomorrow, and I'll be sure to post the results of the test. Fact is, I only had it running for a second the other day. Beyond that, it hasn't run in at least 10 years, so this may not be the end of the battle. I did all of the common checks, though. Compression was at about 128 per cylinder, spark is strong, and now we're dealing with the waterpump. Things are looking up, despite this slow road with the pump. Thank you-all of you-for all of the help you provide. My old mechanic is giving me dirty looks when I ask him questions. Guess they don't like it when you cut into their 70 dollar/hour shop rate. On the other hand, you guys are always ready with a lifetime of knowledge. And no dirty looks...now if you'll stop laughing at me....

 

[krb113]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

NAH!! Nobody's really laughing. This is the way we all learn when we get another "new" motor to mess with. Only the poor soles like Joe Reeves that have had umpteen headaches over ALL of these engines for all these years would be SMILING at us.<br /><br />Glad you have an "old mechanic" that will put up with you. You're right tho! Most want you to get a new one and they don't have to fool with remembering all of that MIND CLUTTER!!<br /><br />It is a great little motor! Mine ran better than my 67 20 hp. I mean it would just idle down as low as you wanted it to on my A model Alumacraft! <br /><br />SMOOOOTH SAILING TO YA!!

 

[krb113]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Just for bologna here, I noticed you were/had run a 67 Thunderbird. INNY or OUTTY? Friend of parents had a 19' IN/OUT 120 horse (4 cyl. chevy nova engine. 194 cu. in. I believe). MAN that was a GOOOOD ride!!! We almost swamped it riding barge waves on TN. River!!!... Anyway, nice ride.

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Hi KB. That 67 Thunderbird was an OMC 6 cylinder. I misspoke, however. I set the account up right after I bought that-my first fiberglass boat-and I never did get it running. Long story, but I moved on to other things. I still think that was probably the neatest of all of the boats I've had. Not a tri-hull. It was listed, according to the nameplate, as a cathedral hull. We had some arguments about that over in the restoration forum, but that's what it said on the boat. Very, very neat hull. Sharky.

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Alright. I put in the new waterpump, replaced the O-ring, seated it back up to the upper, and put it in the tank. Started it up. No water pumping. What's next guys?

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Pull off the thermostat cover from the head, remove the thermostat, and with the cover still off start the engine. If water comes up through the thermostat housing, either you have a bad thermostat or bad bypass.<br />If no water is pumping, check the water pump's intake passages carefully for obstructions. If that seems clear, take the lower unit off and blow up through the water pump tube to see if it's blocked. An old garden hose can be clamped to the water tube to "blow out" any obstructions.<br /><br />You are operating in enough water for the pump to prime are you? The water level should be up over where the pump is.

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing a 18hp fastwin waterpump

Thank you Paul. Yes, I'm doing everything right. I'm slow....not that slow. I'll do everything you said tonight. Thank you for your help. Thanks to all of you. We'll get her straight. I owe you guys a lot.