Carb Flooding?

[jsmendzi]

Hi, I have a 2004 40hp Johnson which won't start b/c the carbs are flooding big time. I have tried adjusting the float / needle with no luck. The motor has been used less than 10hrs, do you think I should install new carb kits on this new of motor? Could it be something else that may be causing the carbs to flood. They gush fuel when starting the engine and/or priming it - not just a little, but a lot. Thanks.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Carb Flooding?

It's possible the float and main jet needle weren't reinstalled properly -- or that the needle was inadvertantly left out in reassembly. It's sometimes possible to install the float upside down too, but I think that results in too little fuel in the bowl rather than too much.

 

[jsmendzi]

Re: Carb Flooding?

Thanks oldboat1, the needle is there, and it looks to be installed correctly as far as I can tell. Is it possible that the float doesn't float properly? Could it have anything to do with the fuel to oil mixture? It is currently 24:1. When closing the float with my fingers and blowing through the gas nozzle it shuts it off air flow completely - but when on the motor the carbs gush gas... Should I just install a new carb kit?

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Carb Flooding?

If you have the carbs apart already I would just put kits in them, soak them and blow them out with compressed air it's easy and cheap. The only way a carb floods is by the needle not seating properly in it's seat, whether it's a float problem or a problem with the needle/seat, so you might as well replace them and go from there. Even though it's only got 10 hours on it, you are running a rich fuel/oil mixture for that break in period and maybe something got gummed up or if it has been sitting, there could be some varnish that you can't see.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Carb Flooding?

don't have any additional ideas on the overflowing carb, other than to suspect that reassembly might be checked again, but that 24:1 oil mix would be too rich for an '04 two cycle motor -- should check your manual on that. (guess the assumption is that it's still in the break-in period -- but maybe it would be useful to try a 50:1 mix at low speed and see if the problem is corrected).

 

[jsmendzi]

Re: Carb Flooding?

Thanks for all of your help thus far. I'll try using new gas with a 50:1 ratio, I used the 24:1 assuming that's it still for the break in period. I've put the carb kits in, and solved that problem of them leaking; however I still cannot get it to start. The plugs are new; spark and they are getting gas. The motor kicks/smokes like it wants to start, but it's just not catching on. Any ideas?

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Carb Flooding?

sounds like you might be closing in on it. I don't have a manual for that motor, but it would probably be a good bet to set the low speed needle out one or 1 1/2 turns from lightly closed for an initial setting, opening it by 1/8 turn increments if necessary. When the motor runs, let it warm up and then follow normal carb adjustment. Should be a good one.

 

[jsmendzi]

Re: Carb Flooding?

I've tried changing the idle speed screw. It was initally set at 4 turns. I have tried everything from 1.5 - 5 turns, but the motor just doesn't keep going. It fires, but that's about it. Could it be anything to do with the electric start?

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Carb Flooding?

In my experience, if low speed needle adjustments make no difference, there is usually a clogged passage somewhere. The needle orifice can be carefully reached with a toothpick without removing the carburetor, in many cases. Sometimes you can also get into the carb idle passages while the carb is still mounted -- Drill and pry out the expansion plug on the top, and use fine wire and carb cleaner under pressure to clear the passageways, then replace the plug. But it might be a lot easier to just remove the carb again, and work on it on the bench.<br /><br />If the starter is turning the motor over at normal speeds, that wouldn't seem to be an issue. I would still suspect a blockage -- maybe a tiny piece of needle valve packing or something.

 

[jsmendzi]

Re: Carb Flooding?

Thanks again oldboat1, I cleaned out the idle passageways yesterday with a needle. I will try again today, but I suspect something else to be a problem. If there was a blockage, where would it be located? The carbs were completely cleaned yesterday, and refitted with new o rings, floats etc? I just don't know what to do next. This is almost a brand new motor with less than 10hrs on it. Could something strange of been done when it was winterized?

 

[mark.aa]

Re: Carb Flooding?

had problem with my 89 60hp flooding,when you pumped hand primer and you primed carbs and the primer bulb started to go hard and fuel started porring out of bottom 2 carbs ,stripped and cleand carbs ,it now stops fuel in float chamber as it should ,must have been dirt in needle valve seat letting fuel in when float chambers full.have you cleaned out carb and changed filter?have you had any dirty fuel or dirt in tank that may have gonerough fuel lines?

 

[jsmendzi]

Re: Carb Flooding?

I used a carb kit and cleaned out and totally replaced everything on the carbs which no longer flood. All fuel lines have also been cleaned, as was the filter. The gas and tank are brand new, so there shouldn't be any dirt at all in it. I've had my neighbor who is a mechanic look at it with me, and neither of us can tell what may be wrong. We've put in new plugs, rebuilt and cleaned the carbs twice, cleaned the fuel filter, checked the plugs for spark/fuel and cannot get it going. It turns over, but does not catch. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as the local marina is quite bogged down right now.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Carb Flooding?

dunno, JS -- frustrating stuff. It sounds like you are close, though, and it may be enough just to try the 50:1 mix and see if she will fire up. From your earlier posts, it sounds like you resolved the leaking problem, and you've gotten pretty intimate with the carb looking for blockages.

 

[jsmendzi]

Re: Carb Flooding?

I've already tried using 50:1 mix, drained the carbs, and still no luck. I just don't know what else I can try? Thanks oldboat for your perseverance.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Carb Flooding?

ah you're welcome, js. wish there was a clear solution. About the only other thing that comes to mind is the tank and connectors, but it sounds like your rig is pretty new so that probably would be a dead end too. (I usually switch to a known good tank and hoses/connectors whenever I have any fuel related problems, just to rule out problems there.)<br /><br />hope you resolve it.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Carb Flooding?

Check for good spark on each cylinder. Make sure someone has not yanked the kill switch. Set fuel mixture screws to 2 turns out from lightly seated. Assuming this is a remote controlled engine, raise the fast idle lever about 1/3. Squeeze pimer bulb til firm. Turn key to ON (not start) and push it in for a 7 or 8 count (this pimes the engine). Then turn to start. Let engine fast idle at 1500 - 2000 rpm until warm. Then set mixture screws for best idle. During warm up you may need to bump the key (choke) a time or two.

 

[jsmendzi]

Re: Carb Flooding?

I've even tried several different tanks, nothing seems to be working... Upinsmoke, I've done everything you mentioned, but nothing seems to be working. What I just can't understand is even though all the key individual parts of the motor appear to be working well, it doesn't work together as a whole. Well I guess in to the dealer I'll have to go come Monday - hopefully they can have it ready before it is too late to use it. Thanks to all who tired to help.

 

[mark.aa]

Re: Carb Flooding?

have you disconnected fuel line at motor end of fuel line to see if you have got fuel coming out of the fuel lines when the primer is pressed (line at input to pump).are the plugs getting wet when cranking? have you tried spraying fuel or easy start down carbs when cranking.if it fires then you have a fuel to carbs and cylinders blockage,have you got commpression on all cylinders.engine must have correct delivery of fuel in cylinder,spark at plugs and commpression to fire ,one is missing,

 

[Goodoleboy]

Re: Carb Flooding?

Have you checked to see if timeing is correct. Just haveing fire to the plugs dosent do any good if its not their the same time as the fuel mixture is.<br /><br />You get fire and gas in the cylinder at the same time, something is gona give.<br /><br />I would also do a link and sync procdure, some is out of adjustment on this new motor.<br /><br />I would also do a compression check, Just for the sake of knowing that its ok. And also for your record book to check back on as a reference.<br /><br />I think timeing is your issue with it rite now. From what your describeing, Sounds as if its much to late, Trying to fire after TDC.<br /><br />Good luck

 

[jsmendzi]

Re: Carb Flooding?

Thanks Good, timing was the next thing I was going to try... my neighbor is going to being a compression gauge from work over the weekend to check that - although it appears to have great compression. What exactly is a lync and sync procedure - I've never done one? Could it have anything to do with a sheared flywheel key? Thanks again.