Honing the cylinder

bozza_boatie

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Apr 13, 2003
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Hi I own a 4hp Johnson which is a mid 80's model.<br />My engine seized because salt water got into the Piston. I pulled apart my motor and Pulled out the rusted Piston. I now have to put it back together. I have been recommended to “Hone out the cylinder wall”. What does Honing Involve? Can I do it myself? And Is it the same as using sand paper. <br />Please Help<br />Thank you,
 

walleyehed

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Honing usually requires a 3 or 4 stone (Flat stone) hone that you would insert in a drill.<br />Tension is applied by a thumb-nut and spring.<br />use light oil and a slow rpm to hone-around 100 RPM, moving the hone in and out in a fasion that allows consistant contact to the cyl. throughout it's depth.<br />You want an even "cross-hatch" pattern of approx. 45 degs, or slightly less.<br />You do not want to continue rotation of the hone with the "in and out" of the drill stopped.<br />When coming up on the last run, release the trigger to stop the rotation at the same time you stop movement of the drill...you don't want the hone coming out of the cyl. while still turning.
 

Tinkerer

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Bozza<br /><br />If you can pull the motor apart and reassemble it you can hone it yourself if you follow walleyehed's instructions.<br /><br />I'd never done it or been shown how to do it but I followed much the same instructions as walleyehed's from a book and it turned out fine.<br /><br />Don't use sand paper or any other hand method. You won't get even pressure around the cylinder walls like you do with the hone; you'll probably do more harm than good; and you can't get the crosshatch pattern. The crosshatch pattern is necessary to let the rings bed in properly in the honed cylinder.<br /><br />The aim is to keep the bores the same size they were but just remove the surface corrosion and glazing (smooth shiny surface)<br /><br />Make sure you wash out the cylinders afterwards with lots of warm soapy water to remove every trace of grit. If you don't you'll just be running grit in the motor and damage it more. As soon as you've washed it flush it with clean water then dry the bores with rags and oil them to stop corrosion. <br /><br />The bad news is you're going to have to pull the motor apart again because you can't get the hone all the way down to the rings with the piston in and you can't get the grit out.
 

BoatBuoy

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Most auto parts stores have them. You might also check into renting one at tool rental stores. Also, once you have the engine dis-assembled, you could take the block to a machine/re-build shop and let them hone it. Shouldn't cost much and only takes a few minutes.
 

Tinkerer

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Originally posted by Bozza:<br /> Where can I get a hone device to hone out the cylinder?
Super Cheap Auto. Repco or AutoBarn charge way too much for exactly the same make of tool you get in different packets at SuperCheap Auto for a lot less. You might be able to hire one but you'll probably find it costs as much or more than buying one at SuperCheap Auto. Alternatively an engine rebuilder might run a hone through it for about the same money if you deliver the block ready to work on, and you should get a professional job.<br /><br />There's a hone picture on this page that I pulled off Google so you know what you're looking for: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://franklin-tools.co.uk/acatalog/ta140.gif&imgrefurl=http://franklin-tools.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_CAMSHAFT___CYLINDER_HEAD_TOOLS _23.html&h=260&w=180&sz=10&tbnid=9wL3rVVz2_kJ:&tbnh=106&tbnw=74&start=23&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcylinder%2Bhone%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN<br /><br />There are different sizes that expand to fit a range of cylinders covering a range of an inch or two so you need to know your cylinder diameter before you buy one. There are little ones for honing brake cylinders but they're not what you want.
 

Tinkerer

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Originally posted by BoatBuoy:<br /> Also, once you have the engine dis-assembled, you could take the block to a machine/re-build shop and let them hone it. Shouldn't cost much and only takes a few minutes.
You seem to be better served in the US with local general machine shops where you can take things in and get a quick turnaround.<br /><br />We generally don't have the same things here, unless you're in the know in the trades. It's usually a case of taking things to some kind of specialist or semi-specialist engineering or engine rebuilding workshop where little jobs get put in a queue way behind bigger jobs. Sometimes we can find a bloke who'll do it on the spot but not often.<br /><br />I always marvel at your US magazines where somebody says "I took it down to the machine shop" and got welding / milling / boring etc done on the spot.
 

OBJ

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Re: Honing the cylinder

One thing you do want to do is, after honing, check the edges of the exhaust and intake ports. Break them over with a file. You don't want real sharp edges here that can catch a ring or scuff the side of the piston.
 

Tinkerer

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Managed to double post so deleted it.
 

walleyehed

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Excellent catch, OBJ.....That's one of my peevs too.<br />Chamfer the ports, yes, very important!!
 

Chinewalker

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Re: Honing the cylinder

FYI - most cylinder hones will not fit the tiny bore of the 4hp. You'll likely need to find a brake cylinder hone to clean up the bores...<br />- Scott
 

R.Johnson

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Here is another trick that will save you some trouble! At the bottom of the cylinder is a web that the connecting rod passes through. When using a hone held in a drill, if you go to deep, it will snag the hone, and chip, or break the stone. Cut out a piece of sheet metal slightly smaller than the bore, and drop it down in the bore. This will act as a stop for the hone. You can cut this piece from the bottom of a tin can, if you don't have anything else.A plastic bucket, and a cheap paint brush works good to wash out the grit.
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Great tip R.Johnson! Thanks!<br /><br />Good luck with the 4hp, Bozza. A brake cylinder hone works for me too.
 

OBJ

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Thanks for that tip also RJ... :) I've busted a couple stones smacking the web....won't no more.. :) :)
 

bozza_boatie

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Thats for all the advice<br />If i take my cylinder head down to a marine mechanic will he be able to hone out the cylinder? Or should I buy one and do it myself? What option will be cheaper? I am fairly inexperienced how hard is it to hone?
 

Tinkerer

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Originally posted by Bozza:<br /> Thats for all the advice<br />If i take my cylinder head down to a marine mechanic will he be able to hone out the cylinder? Or should I buy one and do it myself? What option will be cheaper? I am fairly inexperienced how hard is it to hone?
Phone for some quotes for having the work done.<br /><br />Compare the prices for buying a hone with having it done by someone else. <br /><br />If it's affordable to have it done by a professional you're bound to get a better job than your first attempt. They also have the skills and tools to measure the bore properly.<br /><br />You don't need a marine mechanic specifically as any engine rebuilder or serious workshop that works on cars, boats or motorbikes would probably have the equipment and skills. And some general engineering workshops as well.<br /><br />If you decide to get someone else to do it, print out this thread and give it to them as an aid as there's some great advice on things like filing out the ports and avoiding damaging the hone in the web at the bottom that should help the mechanic and ensure you get a good result.
 

lark2004

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Re: Honing the cylinder

the marine shop will be the most expensive way about here in Oz. As Tinkerer said, any good engine reconditioning shop can do it for you, or even possibly MSAA, they specialise in small engines, all be it mowers and line trimmers, but the principle is still the same. Probably expect it to start $20.00, as this is the basic rate they charge(if the job won't take more than 15 to 20 minutes), then around $20.00 to $40.00 per hour if it is a big job.
 

Tinkerer

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Sorry, I've double posted so I've deleted this one.
 

Tinkerer

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Originally posted by lark2004:<br /> ... even possibly MSAA, they specialise in small engines, all be it mowers and line trimmers, but the principle is still the same. Probably expect it to start $20.00, as this is the basic rate they charge(if the job won't take more than 15 to 20 minutes), then around $20.00 to $40.00 per hour if it is a big job.
A much better suggestion than mine. Local mower shops, unlike local auto mechanics, are much more likely to do the full range of engine rebuilding on two strokes. They'll also know more about honing them than four stroke rebuilers, e.g. the port burr issues that others mentioned. They're working with motors smaller and a lot bigger than yours all the time so they'll have the gear and skills. Reminds me that the bloke at my mower shop is a qualified marine engineer who's helped me out on outboards at times.
 

BoatBuoy

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Re: Honing the cylinder

Originally posted by Bozza:<br /> If i take my cylinder head down to a marine mechanic...
Not familiar with that particular little motor, but most have removable heads. Probably just a typo, but you need to take the cylinder itself, i.e. block, rather than the cylinder head - unless they are one and the same on that little motor.
 
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