No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

[Beck]

Checked with timing light. When it starts missing there is no spark on either plug.<br /><br />What components are common to both plugs that could be the problem? I think I have the TYPE II CD FLYWHEEL MAGNETO with SENSOR COIL can someone confirm this for me? Reading my Selcor manual I think the capacitor is built in to the power pack?<br />My coil is a dual coil, both plugs from one coil.<br /><br />I don't think I can check them like the manual suggest because it runs perfect up to 2k rpm therefore they will test good electrically.<br /><br />Which order of parts would you more experienced guys purchase first? Cheapest to expensive I would think or which is more likely to be at fault? Or at this stage of the game should I just buy the power pack?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Beck<br /><br />Also any e-mails will be welcomed.<br />Dpb1972@aol.com

 

[snapperbait]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

The 89-90 48hp used CD2USL.... Just a little different than CD2...<br /><br />My concern is you may be either be overheating the engine causing it to go into S.L.O.W. which is "speed limiting overheat warning", or something else may be malfunctioning causing it to go into SLOW.. It brings the rpm down to around 2000 when activated... <br /><br />I would make sure the waterpump and thermostat are functioning correctly first, then grab a good digital volt/ohm meter and test the SLOW circut along with the rest of the ignition system before replacing parts...

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Snapperbait,<br /><br />Thanks for the reply, this engine does not have the slow feature.<br /><br />Good compression both cyl. 130#. Checked fuel system and carbs perfect.<br /><br />Idles perfect and sometimes runs perfect at wot for 5 to 10 minutes then starts missing. Checked with the timing light today and found the lack of spark at both plugs causing the missing.<br /><br />Something is droping out at 2k sometimes 2300 rpm and I'm not sure what. The fact that it runs perfect at low rpm I think all the checks and test done at home will say its good, its under a load that it acts up. Not really at normal oper. temp sometimes it occurs right from the get go it will act up before it warms up.<br /><br />Went through the cooling sys its ok too, water pump, thermostat, temp. sensor.<br /><br />Just need to know which parts to replace first in the electrical sys.<br /><br />Thanks, <br />Beck

 

[snapperbait]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Well then, the only other thing I'd recomend is to test the charge coil with an ohm meter, if but for no other reason than to make sure the charge coil is'nt shorting out to ground.. If the charge coil checks out, replace the powerpack...<br /><br />Question... Beck, Is your powerpack located under the flywheel or mounted to the side of the powerhead, and would you post the model # (ex. CD2USL) of the powerpack?

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Snaperbait,<br /><br />My Power pack is on the starboard side of the engine. The only # on it are: 583740 22LN-OA<br /><br />My manual does show how to check the sensor coil but I would think it would check good since the engine starts fine and runs perfect to 2k rpm. <br /><br />I was leaning to the powerpack also since it has circuits in it that sometimes act squirly when a load is put to them. But I was just wondering what other, cheaper, component I might replace first. Perhaps the coil since mine is one component that serves both plugs. Not really sure of the price of either component. I will be pricing them today.<br /><br />Thanks for the reply I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel actually thought I saw it several times, oh well.<br /><br />Thanks again,<br />Beck

 

[rodbolt]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

hello<br /> look at the pack very close. do you have any tan wire exiting the pack anywhere?<br /> good luck and and keep posting

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Snapperbait and Rodbolt,<br /><br />I started diging into the wiring to check for a tan wire from power pack etc. and I gave bad info.<br /><br />The powerpak is under the flywheel, what I thought was the pp was part of the coil. Dual coil<br />2 coils in one component. Coil located bottom left of the junction box, also located top left is a rectifier, 4 wires coming out of it 1 yel, 1 yel w/grey stp, 1 yel w/blue stp, 1 red Is that common to both plug circuits. Should I replace that first?<br /><br />There are 2 sets of wires coming from under the flywheel: a 5 wire set and a 3 wire set<br /><br />I'm not really sure what ignition system I actually have now. I have the seloc manual and it's a little vaugue on some of the models in perticular mine.<br /><br />Will anything/everything I check, check good since it runs good to 2k rpm? Which items should I replace first? Under the circumstances. Wish I had access to parts to just swap until it's corrected but I don't.<br /><br />Thanks for the input,<br />Beck

 

[rodbolt]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

hello<br /> dude without the proper test equipment and the training to use it your in for a difficult task. you never did answer my tan wire question. but I suspect your pack is malfunctioning or you have an over heat and your alarm horn does not work. it sounds like SLOW is being triggered.<br /> post us back with the alarm circuits test results.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Hi,<br /><br />According to Joe R. I do not have slow, and I tested the overheat sensor and it works and the over heat horn works when tan wire is grounded, checked that awhile back. <br /><br />I understand it will be difficult to check these last few components especially since they operate correctly up to 2k rpm.<br /><br />I guess I need to know which order of replacement would you more experienced guys do first. The more expensive powerpack? <br /><br />Thanks for the help,<br />Beck

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Rodbolt,<br /><br />You are right I didn't answer your question. When I checked for the tan wire I realized the power pack must be under the flywheel. There are 2 sets of wires coming from the flywheel, a 5 set and a 3 set. <br /><br />Yes I do have a tan wire coming from the Power Pack which is under the flywheel. It's in the 5 wire set.<br /><br />5 wire set has: tan, Blk w/yel or tan stripe, Black, Orange w/grn stripe and Orange w/blu stripe both of these go to pri. of coil<br /><br />3 wire set has: Yel, Yel w/grey stripe, Yel w/blue<br /><br />I hope this helps.<br /><br />Just want to let you all know I appreciate the help and hope I'm narrowing down the poss. causes.<br /><br />I don't mind buying some parts now, just want to know which ones I should start with.<br /><br />Since I don't have a power pack on the side of the engine I suppose its under the flywheel. What would the name of this ignition be?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Beck

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

That pack is a CD2US4

 

[snapperbait]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

CD2USL... Pop the flywheel, then you'll know.. Heck, let us know too.. CD2--- (whichever it is) should be stamped on right on top of the power pack/ignition module...<br /><br />Since your manual seems vague and test equipment is limited, here's about the best you can do..<br /><br />1 Pop the flywheel and have a good look at all the wires, check for any bare or melted wires, ect..<br />2 Remove the ignition module screws and raise the ignition module.<br />3 Disconnect the brown and brown/yellow wire leading from the charge coil to the ignition module.<br />4 Set your ohm meter to the rx100 scale. Connect your ohm meter and test between the brown and brown/yellow wire on the charge coil.. the meter should read 535 to 585 when connected between those two wires.<br />5 test to see if the charge coil is shorting out to ground... Connect the - meter lead to engine ground, the + meter lead to either the brown or brown/yellow charge coil wires(actually, test them both, one at a time).. If it's not grounded out, the meter should not read anything (infinate resistance)..<br /><br />If everything checks out ok with the charge coil, replace the powerpack/ignition module... <br /><br />Good luck and let us know how you make out with it..

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Good Morning,<br /><br />I will check that this evening after work. I have the meter and the flywheel puller.<br /><br />Just seems to me that it will check good since it runs perfectly up to 2k rpm? I will let you know what I find.<br /><br />Thanks

 

[rodbolt]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

hello<br /> well I dont have much experience. I have only wrenched for about 30 years. I have had more technical training than a lot of college grads spent in school.<br /> but if it has a tan wire I will bet it has SLOW.<br /> the 3 wire set is for battery charging and does nothing for ign. the 5 wire set is what we are looking at.<br /> Blk/yellow is kill cicuit. remove it and you isolate the engine cut off circuits.<br />blk is pack/stator ground remove it or let it become loose or corroded and the pack fails to operate.<br />orange with blue stripe is #1 cyl orange with green is #2 cyl. <br /> that leaves the infamous Tan wire<br /> that goes to the overheat circuits. allow it to ground or corrode some and it triggers SLOW. SLOW makes the motor shimmy like a 20 dollar hula dancer about 2000 RPM. the chargecoil and trigger coils and such I belive are all molded into the pack. it takes a speacial tool or an incredible amount of luck and patience to replace the CD2USL packs. U means its under the flywheel. before condeming the pack carefully test the overheat circuit . sometimes the horn can trigger SLOW and sometimes corrosion at the temp sensor switch can allow enough continuity to trigger SLOW and not the alarm. if you are extra positive the engine is not overheating then remove the tan wire from the amphenol connector and temporarily tape it out of the way. restest. if motor still goes into slow odds are its a bad pack. if motor runs correctly, chase phantoms and easter bunnies in your wiring harness.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Rodbolt,<br /><br />Originally a marine shop that I limped to when the motor acted up, they are located on the bayou, they said it sounded like slow. Therefor I went thru the cooling sys. Thermostat clean, I even removed it. Sensor I tested it with vom meter and it closes, not positive of the temp but it did close circuit to ground. Tested engine with thermostat removed it acted up, even with tan wire from sensor removed still did it. Checked temp. with the hand not hot could hold hand on motor several seconds. It even acted up from the start before engine had time to warm up.<br /><br />Now for loose or corroded wires, I started looking for that last evening. Also attempted to remove the flywheel darn thing is stuck big time. I even broke off a wheel puller bolt trying. So I heated and cooled it several times with penetrating oil sitting in the shaft indentation where the nut goes. I'm going out now to purchase more bolts.<br /><br />Will keep yall informed.<br /><br />Thanks to all who have helped me.<br /><br />Sincerly,<br />Beck

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Hello again,<br /><br />Finally got the flywheel off. Ignition Module # is: CD2USL/61<br /><br />There are items under the flywheel, Ing. Module, a black coil next to it, charge coil or pickup coil? Then a 2 or 3 pole coil for charging circuit.<br /><br />Ohmed out the black coil next to ign. coil: 565 ohms and no reading to ground.<br /><br />Purchased a new ignition module and will install it today, probably will not get to go out test engine due to weather.<br /><br />Will keep you posted.<br /><br />Thanks <br />Beck

 

[nordy]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

I think Rodbolt is right.<br />The other day I had to repair my 30hp-Johnson's powerpack, because moisture had penetrated in the cdi curcuit because of damaged seal on the back side of the housing.<br />I had to remove the board from the housing and I analyzed the circuit in detail.<br />On the board is a circuit preventing the engine from running faster than 2000 rpm when the tan wire is shorted to ground (normally through the temp switch when the head is overheated).<br />If functions in this way:<br />The trigger coil speed is measured and converted to a speed proportional voltage.<br />If it exceeds a certain level the ignition voltage generating capacitor is <br />discharged through a 3 Ohms resistor to ground (done by a thyristor switched into the on state by the frequency-voltage-converter output).<br />Normally with S.L.O.W off the capacitor will be discharged via a different path through the primary side of the ignition coils, where the voltage will be transformed to about 50kV (normal discharching is done by two different thyristors triggered by trigger coil voltage).<br />So with S.L.O.W on you have no sparks at all on the plugs above 2000 rpm, because no voltage is lead to the ignition coils. <br /><br />Nordy from Germany

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Nordy<br /><br />Thanks for the explanation on the slow circuit. I wondered how it would limit the firing.<br /><br />Now for an update.<br /><br />I replaced the ign. coil. Ran it in the drive way with muffs on. Started ok and ran for several minutes then developed a miss for a minute than ran fine again??<br /><br />Took it out to the bayou and it ran fine for about 20 minutes then out of nowhere it started missing. Not like before, just running bad 3500 rpm and missing. Water was too rough for me to check timing with the light. I think it even missed at slower speeds too. With the rough water and being bummed out I really don't remember.<br /><br />Could the slow have messed up the coil feeding spark plug? Mine is a dual coil. It had ohmed out good before, not sure of actual readings but no shorts. <br /><br />I checked the key circuit when I replaced the ign. module and it seemed ok no ground reading until key was off. I checked the slow circuit no reading to ground either.<br /><br />I guess the only two other ign. components are the charge coil and coil to plugs. I'm thinking of replacing them one at a time but after checking the timing. Or since it ran good for a while the timing should be ok? Which one would likly cause what I am experiencing? Or should I just replace the easies one, the spark plug coil?<br /><br />Any input would be appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks <br />Beck

 

[nordy]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Hello Beck,<br /><br />just to understand you, you said it's running bad at 3500 rpm now and suddenly it started missing.<br />Missing ? the engine shut down ?<br />Running bad ? Did it shuttle ? one or both cylinders ?<br /><br />If only one cylinder would make problems, you could exclude the stator coil by sure. <br />You should pay attention to this fact.<br />If both cylinders fail either the stator or the dual ignition coil could be wrong.<br /><br />Nordy

 

[Beck]

Re: No spark both cyl. above 2000 rpm '89 48 spl

Hi to all,<br /><br />Well I'll try to explain, before replacing the ign. module it wouldn't run above 2k rpm and boumced back and forth "slow" kicking in for some reason but deffently not overheating.<br /><br />I replaced the ign. module. Now at different speeds from mid range to wot it just ran badly missing very bad, runing, but missing. I'm not sure which plug or if its both. As yesterday was very windy and rough, I probably shouldn't have been out but I wanted to see if the ign. module had repaired it. The puzzleing thing about it is that it ran fine for 15 to 20 minutes.<br />I checked the temp. of the engine and wasn't hot, I could put my hand on the block for several seconds.<br /><br />I'll try to get out later today to check further like which plug. What other things should I check while out on the water? I have a fluke vom meter.<br />I will check the plugs again but they were brand new and have new plug wires.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Beck