Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

[nebraska_woody]

I have an 89 johnson gt200, and what i'm wondering is if there should be some sort of "restrictor cap" on the end of the pee hole instead of just a regular threaded tube sticking out? The tube is approximately a half inch (outside diameter) around that is sticking out of the motor cowl, but what i'm noticing is everytime I shut off the motor, the water drains out of the motor through the peehole and the system loses it's prime for when I go to start the motor up again. It can take up to 30 seconds (at an increased RPM) for the motor to reprime itself again. I'm having overheating issues with this thing when i'm at idle or trolling speeds cause I dont think the motor is keeping enough water in the system. Could I find a little threaded plastic pvc cap that size and drill a smaller hole in the middle of it to assist the motor in keeping the prime in the cooling system, or would that build up too much pressure in the system and hurt something? Thanks for any help

 

[dakotashooter2]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Sounds like it might be time to replace the impeller.

 

[nebraska_woody]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

something I noticed last night is that when there ISN'T water coming out of the peehole, there is exhaust smoke coming out of it until the water pushes through. Is that little bit of exhaust a normal thing, or could that mean I have a leak in some sort of gasket too? I bought the boat/motor last summer and had the impeller replaced then. Can they go bad in a year? I do recall running the motor out of the water a couple times just for a short 30 seconds or a minute each time.... could that little bit damage the impeller that fast? I always try to have the muffs on if i'm going to run it, but I do remember a couple instances where I didn't. Any comments about my idea of a restrictor cap on that threaded nipple sticking out of the cowl?

 

[Xcusme]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Yup, your impeller is toast. Running the motor even for a short while without the lubrication of water can destroy the impeller. When the impeller 'arms' tear off, they can be forced up the water tube to the power head and lodge, causing a blockage. When you replace the impeller, be sure there are no missing 'arms'. If you are missing some of the impeller, it's time to back flush the power head with air and water,to be sure all cooling passages are clear.

 

[nebraska_woody]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

I bought the thing down in Mississippi and brought it back up to the midwest. Could the elevation change be drastic enough to warrent a tune-up? It runs rough up here, but if my memory serves me right, seemed to run fine down there when I was making my decision to buy it or not. any thoughts on any of that?

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

I actually had a similar question. I have replaced the stock tell-tale on my 99 200hp Johnsons, where the fresh watre flush out is, with quick disconnect hose connections so that when I get back to my slip I can just stick the hose on to flush them out instead of screwing out the tell-tale then screw the hose in and then do it in reverse. Anyway I noticed that since I did this, when I am under way my water gauges are showing less water moving through them. The hole on these quick connections is alot bigger than the stock tell-tale hole and there is alot of water coming out of them and I have no overheating going on. My question is does the engine need this extra backpressure on the telltale to properly cool it or not, also when I put my finger over the hole to restrict it, the gauges go up to normal range. I mean I know it is only a tell-tale but does it have any cooling affect on the engine or not, I never thought it did but when I saw my water gauges I got a little nervous. I am also not having any priming problems with water upon starting up, as soon as I start it up water shoots right out of the tell-tales and under alot of pressure too. Thanks.

 

[OBJ]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Matt...listen to what tha' guys are saying. Your impeller is toast. It only takes 15 to 30 seconds to trash an impeller without water...even at idle speeds. Replace it.

 

[Solittle]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Matt - Where the boat has been run has nothing to do with a fried impeller.

 

[sparkroost]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

just thought I would add my .02. that backflusher...welp.. they don't really work. When you use your hose at home the water is cold, or at best luke warm. Not hot enough to open the thermostats. it might slowly come out, but nothing fast enough to "flush".

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Sparkroost....are you saying that the best way to flush your motor is to use the muffs? Why would they continue to put those backflushers on if they do no good? I guess it is safe to say that you shouldn't run your motor with only a hose in the backflusher and with no muffs.

 

[sparkroost]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Water enters the water pump. It's pumped into the engine. If the pressure exceeds a certian amount it will push the bypass valve open and pass water, but.... there is a thermostat that stays closed until it hits a certian temperature. The purpose of the thermostat is to keep water in the block until it is too hot, then it opens and more water is allowed to enter from the water. If you will notice when running on muffs the exhaust relief "spits" water out. When it get's warm it will pee out the exhaust relief holes.<br /><br />the only effective way I could backflush my V4 is to remove the head hose and force water into it since the bypass and thermostat is below that. I think some blocks have the thermostats in the head. Besides all this, if you backflush and it's path goes to the output side of the water pump, how will the water get out the pump fast? The water is not meant to go in that direction.<br /><br />Now of course I am speaking of an older motor. It's possible OMC has thought of the "backflush" idea and made provisions for it. In my case and most others, a backflusher will not work effectively.<br /><br />As for the "put finger over pee hole, get's hotter". This is only logical since you are not expelling hot water to bring in cold as fast by holding the pee hole. It has to excape through the thermostat or it's TINY bypass. It will just simply heat up until the thermostat opens to allow more flow of water.

 

[93bronco]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

isnt this a V6 90 degree loopvee motor?<br />if it is , it most likely has a water control valve on the throttle arm.<br />i believe the way the water is routed is different than other J/E motors.<br />-<br />the impeller probably needs to be replaced, but doesnt the majority of the water exit the exhaust?<br />if that is the case- it would not be uncommon for the pee hole to take a few to get all the air out and deliver a steady stream again.<br />-<br />it also will spit air out the pee hole- due to it getting trapped under the rectifier and starboard side water jackets.<br />-<br />if im wrong than correct me so that i know.<br />im doing the upgrade that dhadley recomended for this purpose, to get the trapped air out faster.<br />-<br />wouldnt hurt to get a flushing muffler, they aide in keeping a good amount of back pressure- along with cutting down on noise for the neighbors.

 

[sparkroost]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

I am pretty sure the water exiting the prop is the water exiting the block. In order to regulate the water coming out the block it has to pass the thermostat in order to exit the prop(there is some bypass that will allow some water to flow)<br /><br />In any water cooling system with a thermostat, the water is kept in the block to get it hot, as soon as possible, to get things expanded and for it to be efficient. once hot enough it regulates flow(thermostat) and pressure(bypass valve). In oder to have such a system work the block needs to be sealed from water expelling too fast(can make engine overheat OR too cold block temperature)<br /><br />Most of the salt buildup is in the heads?? This is the last place water has to go before the thermostat and bypass valve. Water just sits there until the t-stat opens and allows water to flow.<br /><br />I don't know about that particular block. I may be totally wrong. just thought I would bring to the attention of others that a backflusher is not really as good as it is made out to be. Once oxidation occurs, it's hard as a rock. I don't think any product out there as a "snake oil" will cure it. You have to take it apart and scrape, chisel, whatever it takes to get it out and hope you haven't lost too much aluminum from the corrosion. It pays to flush everytime as fast as you can. I take about 30 minutes doing my boat motor EVERY time. Spraying down expecially the tilt tube and motor swivel(cast metal on mine)... then again, I have a motor from the stone ages.

 

[ob]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

nebraska_woody, the fact that you stated in your second post that there is exhaust smoke coming from the tell/tale when you start your engine before water begins coming out leads me to believe that you have an exhaust leak entering the cooling system somewhere.This would definately add air(exhaust)to the engines waterflow and cause the problems you are experiencing. I'm guessing this somewhere may be an exhaust cover gasket.<br /><br />Don't overlook the good advice already given as to replacement of waterpump and T/stats.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Sparkroost.....The newer motors actually have a port that is made for backflushing. It is a backflusher and a tell-tale all in one. The tell-tale is a plug that screws into the backflusher. When you get back to the dock or your house, you unscrew the tell-tale and screw the hose in and it backflushes the motor. I'm assuming this works pretty well since they keep putting it on the motors, and every time I use it I get water coming out of the lower unit and up out of the prop, so I guess it is flushing pretty good, but I have never heard anything on the subject about the thermostats not opening during back flushing, I just assumed it was set up to work properly.

 

[sparkroost]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

if I connect a backflusher to my pee hole it will come out the lower unit. It however will not flush the heads, where most salt deposits are. Since the t-stat is just after the head in the water circuit.<br /><br />Does this "backflusher" come from OMC, or did someone make this piece aftermarket?

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

No it is stock on the motor when you buy it. It is the factory tell-tale and it screws out and has a regular hose conmnection. It is right in between the exhaust pressure relief. I think they started doing it in the mid 90's, I didn't see until I got my 2000 Evinrude 150, but I have it on my 1999 Johnson 200's also.

 

[nebraska_woody]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Thanks to everyone for their input on this. Yes, i'm going to make an appointment with my boat doctor to get it replaced, since I'm not much of a wrencher myself. I think too that part of my problem existed because my muffs dont really fit tight on the motor, and more water leaks out than is forced up and into. That's another thing for you guys to look for with your own motors and muffs so you dont make the same mistake I did.if anything, i'm going to start running it in a big garbage can or a horse tank instead of trusting the muffs. I never really had anyone do an overall... performance or diagnostic check on my motor since I had it... I'm going to find someone who will do that this week for me... or I hope to anyway. Anyway.. thanks for all the input, as I had no idea the impeller is that fragile of a part.

 

[nebraska_woody]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Hey guys, one more quick question for anyone who can tell me. I dont have my manual yet (it's ordered) and I was thinking of sticking some new plugs in the ole girl. Can you tell me the best plugs to get... either the factory recommended, or maybe something a little hotter burning(yet safe) to give the motor a little boost. I dont know what plugs are in the boat now (I didn't change them when I bought the boat last year), as I'm not currently able to get to the boat until Sunday.

 

[ob]

Re: Water drains out of pee hole and loses prime everytime!

Use Champion QL77JC4 gapped at .030".