David I found what you sought

[Realgun]

"Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.”11.16.3.7.<br />

"Solderless crimp on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used, and that will produce a connection meeting the requirements of E-11.16.3.3.” 11.16.3.8.

*Reprinted with permission by the American Boat & Yacht Council. This is not the full text of E-11 of the ABYC standards. It is in response to some of the most commonly asked questions.<br /><br />Good Morning.

 

[ndemge]

Re: David I found what you sought

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br /><br />Light bulbs, Talk about light bulbs, QUICK!

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: David I found what you sought

Realgun, thank you for this research. It however does not prohibit soldering. It also does not stipulate solderless crimp-on connectors. This has been my position ever since this debate started.<br /><br />And I realize that this info is for an automobile and not a boat, but to support my position that soldering is sound method of connecting two wires, here is an instruction sheet from Chrysler Corporation Service & Parts Division for a connector & terminal assembly. Instrucxtion sheet K6853037, supplied with a connector purchased 7/18/05, <br />1. Disconnect battery.<br />2. Disconnect the wiring connector fromits mating half.<br />3. Cut off the existing wiring connector...<br />4. Stagger cut all wires...<br />5. Strip insulation off...<br />6. Stagger cut matching wires on th erepair wire assy...<br />7. Slide a piece of heat shrink tubing onto each wire of the repair harness.<br />8.Connect wire harness end to the repair wire end by twisting(mechanical connection) ends together.<br />9. Solder twisted(mechanical connection) wire ends with rosin core solder.<br />10. Slide heat shrink tubing to cover each splice. Be careful to center each splice inside the tubing. Heat tubing to shrink and seal splice. Use the approved air heat gun only. (Very important to use air heat gun to shrink tubing.)<br />11. Re-tape wire harness over splices...<br />12. Connect wiring connector...<br />13. Reconnect battery.<br />14. Test system.<br /><br />So you see this procedure meets the requirements of ABYC 11.16.3.7. You have the twisted wires as a mechanical means of connection. Merely sliding them together and giving a light twist will not do, but done properly the twist will provide satisfactory mechanical connection with the solder providing another and a sound electrical connection. The heat shrink tubing then seals the connection from the elements.<br /><br />Even though this instruction sheet was provided by Chrysler for road-going automobiles, you can see that the procedure would satisfy ABYC standards too. This is NOT to say that crimped terminals are not a satisfactory connection method however. Done properly either method would provide suitable service. But the keyword here is properly.<br /><br />This has been my position all along.<br /><br />Thank you again for your efforts in providing the information I asked for regarding the standards applying to wiring connection and terminations. And thank you for the time to present my information too.

 

[crab bait]

Re: David I found what you sought

i like to say.. if'n tinned/i.e.marine wire is used,, really,, no heat skrink is needed as per 'seal'..<br /> cause there's no way corrodison can enter when soldered cause it's sealed as is.. <br /><br />altho heat skrink still can be used, as an insulation .. but so can tape,ect..<br /><br />i think your gonna lose on this one DAVID.. cause you didn't quote anything from NASA.. ..

 

[amirm]

Re: David I found what you sought

Just to add to the debate, like many, I believe in using adhesive lined shrink tubing which cost a fortune. The other day, I had to strip some of it to get the wire to fit inside my downrigger power connector (the nice Scotty downriggers sure has a crappy power plug). I was suprised to see that the adhesive had not stuck at all to the wire insulation! I could easily cut away the shrink tubing and it would just fall off as I did. <br /><br />Note that I was using Ancor wires and connectors with integrated adhesive lined shrink tube! And yes, I had heated it properly as it had oozed out of the two ends.<br /><br />I wonder if anyone else has ever tested whether the adhesive actually does anything...<br /><br />Amir

 

[Realgun]

Re: David I found what you sought

David I beleieve that wat Bayliner did on my boat to make the wire harness. It failed somewhere. As the failure was really hard to find (no heat shrink but about 100 yards of black electrcal tape) I trashed it.<br /><br />I believe the method you refer to is sound but hard to do in the boat. Unless you are going to just make looms like I believe Bayliner did/does?<br /><br />Thank David!!!

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: David I found what you sought

Thank you for your repctful response Realgun. I do not dispute the cumbersome nature of soldering. And I do use crimp terminals, a lot. My only dispute was in the long debate trying to say that soldering was an inferior method. It is a preferrable method for sealing out corrosion. However, that does not mean that a properly made crimp, with proper selaing isn't an acceptable, and sometimes preferrable method.<br /><br />Thanks again for the kind dialog.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: David I found what you sought

Appropriate marine connections that we really haven’t discussed yet:<br /><br />1 – USCG procedures for AC electrical connections within a panel: crimp first, then solder, then insulate the connection.<br /><br />2 – we all know that wire nuts are not allowed…unless your connection is soldered and a wire nut is used as the means of mechanical connection. Procedure: twist wires together, solder, screw on a wire nut. It is recommended to fill the base of the wire nut with liquid e-tape or secure the connection such that the open base of the wire nut is facing downward to prevent it from holding water.<br /><br />There’s some fodder for the solder-heads.<br /> <br /><br /><br />Amir – adhesive lined shrink tubing is expensive if you get it from a marine supply outlet. It is cheap as sin from electrical distribution places. Del City Wire sells tubing in 4-ft lengths. The clear, dual-wall, and triple-wall tubing are adhesive lined.<br /><br />1/8-inch single-wall tubing (no adhesive) : $0.51 / 4-ft length.<br />1/4-inch single-wall tubing (no adhesive) : $0.73 / 4-ft length.<br /><br />1/8-inch dual-wall tubing w/adhesive lining: $1.74 / 4-ft length.<br />1/4-inch dual-wall tubing w/adhesive lining: $2.81 / 4-ft length.<br /><br />1/8-inch clear tubing w/adhesive lining: $1.69 / 4-ft length.<br />1/4-inch clear tubing w/adhesive lining: $2.73 / 4-ft length.<br /><br />2/0 – 4/0 triple-wall w/adhesive lining: $1.88 / 6-in length.<br />Cut in half for two 3-inch pieces to seal both ends of a battery cable for $0.94/each.<br /><br /> http://www.delcity.net/delcity/servlet/catalog?category=Shrink Tube & Tape&page=1 <br /><br />Do the math. If you use 1/2-inch of tubing per terminal connection, a 4-ft piece of tubing will yield 96 sealed w/adhesive-lined connections at a cost of about 3-cents each (+ the cost of the bare terminal connector).

 

[amirm]

Re: David I found what you sought

Thanks a lot Rabbit. I didn't realize they were available from other sources at such cheap prices! I have been using heatshrinks for years in electronics work but we don't use adhesive lined ones there....<br /><br />Much appreciated.<br /><br />Amir