Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

[newboater40759]

I need a new battery for my 50HP Merc I was wondering if anyone has used these and how they performed vs. other batteries you've used

 

[dingbat]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

Well, I've experienced good and bad with them. I'm now on my second one since the first one went south after only 6 months of use. The good news is that they replaced it free of charge but that is little consolation when your stuck in the middle of nowhere with a dead battery.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

No question their technology is superior in several ways. But the price tag reflects that. Regardless of which type of battery they must be cared for properly- NEVER allowed to sit with a low charge & not drained routinely beyond half capacity.<br />To be honest I haven't yet used one. Next time I need one it will likely be an Optima deep cycle for my starting battery.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

had a 'blue top' trolmo battery.. HATED IT.. no brass an not use-friendly.. takes no abuse..<br /><br />plus ,unbeknowced to me,, needs a 3 stage charger... <br /><br />who needs these high dollar, prissy, high tech wimps...

 

[newboater40759]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

thanks but which kind do you like/recomend

 

[ndemge]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

From what I've read, optima is Great if you have a very abusive enviroment. My brother had one on his sand rail, had to be mounted on it's side and took a LOT of bouncing. A normal flooded cell would not survive in such a situation. But for the boat, I think I'd stick with a regular flooded cell. Maintnince free is nice, but on the bad side... you can't maintinence.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

Crabbait,<br />What exactly happened with your Optima? I'm very curious. <br /><br />I have heard mixed info about type of charger. Their website seems to say nothing special required. Gel cell batteries are fussy, but these AGM type are not supposed to be, so they say.

Compatible with most Charging Systems<br />Unlike gel cells, OPTIMA batteries do not require special charging equipment. The fast recharge cycle will get you back on the water while others are still waiting at the dock.

Optima <br />I've heard a lot of folks say these are the best, etc., but now I'm starting to hear the other side. I'd sure like to hear all the details possible so I can weigh this out before I buy. Especially was the battery left properly charged (or left discharged) before it died, or even way overcharged somehow?<br /><br />Ndemge, you have a point, maintenance free is only good so long as the battery doesn't need maintenance. Wet cell batteries need distilled added from time to time whether you can add or not. All the propoganda I've been believing says these AGM batteries like Optima truly don't need anything added. Know something I don't? I haven't spent my money- yet.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

well,, that's right,, they don't let ya know about the special charger ,readily..<br /><br />all i had was an old style charger an it ruined it pronto.. i returned it an got another.. <br /><br />they charged it an checked the new one before let me out the door,, an in no-time on the water the next day lost charge.. my minni-max has led battery gauge lites.. i.e. 'low charge'.. <br /><br />took it home charge it up.. an never seemed to get full power.. <br /><br />read the card that came with it.. a full US CONSTITUTION wording packed on a 5x5 card.. that norman einstein an oppenheimer couldn't decipher.. <br /><br />finally ,, talked to CARL,, my go-to guy at ( rhymes with US MOAT ) he deciphered the criptic script an locked me on to the 3 stage charger.. <br /><br />believe me,, i was soooo pissed i could've punched my mother..<br /><br />why don't they tell ya upfront..?? an why not they sell/have there own brand of optima chargers..??..!! <br /><br />heck,, i'd buy one.. why not ..!! i choose an i'll buy into the system...<br /><br />battery was never right.. <br /><br />there's two products in this world i absolutely dispise.. motorguide an optima

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

That is a bummer, Crabbait. I wonder what sort of charger you were using which caused all the trouble?<br /><br />I just found out that the Air Force uses this style battery (not necessarily Optima, though virtually identical in construction) in many/most of their fighter planes since they are safer, hold up to the stresses and strains, and last longer. I will try to sneak a peek at Optima's little 5x5 fine print card and see what surprises it might hold.<br /><br />I did find that these AGM batteries will recharge exceptionally rapidly but require the voltage to not be allowed to go higher than 14.2 (Concorde AGM, not necessarily Optima), and for constant charging 13.8 at a maximum of 1 amp, so current must be limited if you want to leave it on the charger all the time. They self-discharge so very slowly compared to ordinary batteries there is little need to leave them on the charger all the time. They need to be topped off a lot less, actually. There is a constant current type of charge for conditioning, but it sounds like if the battery is getting used frequently enough this should not be necessary.<br /><br />Still sounds about ten times easier than any gel cell battery, and one you get used to it still quite a bit easier than the regular flooded cell type, too. The question remains whether all the nice features are worth three times the price of the regular flooded cell type. Comes down to personal preference, seems to me.

 

[BG1150]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

I have a yellow top optima in my 53 chevy and have had no problems so far. The car has the old 6 cyl but converted to 12v with a one wire GM alternator. I was going to get one for the trolling motor and one for the 115 mercury but now I wonder.

 

[thefoyboy]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

I have two blue top Optimas in my boat and would trade them for no other. My starter is a 34M and my reserve for anchoring is a D31M. Neither one has ever run close to out of juice and they perform like champs. Sorry to hear about others bad experiences.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

Penny for pound-of-performance, the Optima battery is the most expensive and shortest lived of all the batteries available. Mounted sideways it loses 30% of its capacity where AGM’s lose nothing and can even be mounted inverted, tho it’s not recommended.<br /><br />Almost any AGM has a better capacity, usable life, and costs less than the Optima. If you think you like Optima’s, take a look at the new AGM batteries available from the NorthStar Battery Co. It’s a new company with a new technology. Their trolling batteries are sold under the name of Dual Pro – Lightening Series. An LS-2400 group 24 at 53lbs ($166) outperforms an Optima D31M group 31 at 60lbs ($169). The LS are true deep cycle bats designed specifically for trolling type applications.* If you troll every weekend and discharge the battery 100% percent every time, your Dual Pro’s life expectance isn’t much more than 7 or 8-years. The LS bats are not as sensitive to the charging voltage as the Optima is, and can be bulk charged at C1…their rated capacity…a 79A/Hr battery can be bulk charged at 79-amps, tho it will impact the useful life of the battery.<br /><br /> http://www.dualpro.com/ <br /><br />Need a house bank on your boat? See the line of heavy-duty marine deep cycles. Currently being installed in mega-yachts, but you don’t need to buy them by the dozen. <br /><br /> http://www.northstarbattery.com/hd_marine.php <br /><br />*Note: all AGM’s are starting batteries in the sense they are able to cough up more amps for starting applications than other battery technology. NorthStar calls the smaller group 22 and group 24 batteries ‘starting’ bats because you don’t need a bat bigger than that for starting applications. They are actually true deep cycle bats as well.

 

[louisp]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

I checked on the Optima's when I was refurbishing a boat last winter. My local Boater's World discouraged me from purchasing one since they've had so many problems with returns. I ended up with a AGM (absorbed glass mat) that is basically the new generation. Go to http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm <br />for more info and the advantages of AGM. They don't off-gas, mount in any position, have lower discharge rates when not in use, use ordinary chargers, ship ready to go, and can handle extemely rough vibration. It's taken a beating on my flat hull so far this year with no problems. Only drawback is price, but after the cost of a boat, 4 stroke, electronics, hydraulic steering, you get the picture, so I feel my boat is worthy of a $135 battery. Very cheap insurance!<br /><br />19' Kenner Proskiff, 2003 Suzuki DF70

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

Rabbit, are you saying the Optima isn't AGM? I don't think it is gel- are you sure? That was not my understanding. I know Concorde has one and suspected others. Not sure how they compare. Know any websites which document that Optima isn't AGM? You're blowing my mind- or at least a long held assumption.<br /><br />By the way, great to see you back!

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

BCP - Yes; Optima batteries are AGM’s…specifically, lead-acid AGM as opposed to a gel AGM battery. I may have confused you when I said the Optima lose performance when mounted on its side. I erred!!! The Optima does NOT lose any performance when mounted in an orientation other than upright. Gel batteries can lose some performance (10% typical, up to 30%), but typically not AGM’s.<br /><br />Optima’s have tighter charging tolerances and I think this accounts for the problems people have had in the past. Similar to gel batteries in this regard. It is a great little battery but there are other AGM’s that exceed the Optima’s performance and they cost less.<br /><br />I have considered the Concorde the supreme AGM. I am re-evaluating this. There is no AGM on the market that completes with the NorthStar for size or performance or value.<br /><br />I see two possible problems with NorthStar batteries; (1) weight…or lack there of. Where large battery banks are used as ballast, switching to NS’s can leave you too light, but it shouldn’t be enough to matter. (2) Their marine batteries have only been on the market for about 2-years. NS itself is only 4-years old. There has not been enough time for empirical data on NS battery performance and failure. Reading the specs I can’t see how to make these batteries fail short of all-out intentional abuse…and even then it’s going to take awhile. As I mentioned above, you can drain those batteries 100%, then recharge them…in this scenario they will sustain 400+ fully-discharged/fully-charged cycles. In the last two years, there hasn’t been a single NS marine deep cycle AGM battery returned.<br /><br />I do not know who makes the AGM for West Marine. East Penn (DEKA) makes the SeaGel (gel) for WM, and Trojan makes the SeaVolt (flooded) for WM.<br /><br />I still think the overall best deep cycle battery you can buy is the Surrette/Rolls, a flooded lead-acid battery. It is also the least expensive in the long run. Taken care of, it will outlast anything. I have no problem with AGM's for starting applications (it's what I use) and where money is not an issue, there is no reason to have flooded batteries if AGM batteries are available.<br /><br />EDIT: btw, Optima is NOT the only spiral wound AGM. There are several companies in Europe making them and a few others here, including the Orbital battery.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

Rabbit,<br />OK, we're on the same page after all. You've consistently had good info & advice on technical stuff. I just read something into your post that you didn't really say.<br /><br />Honestly this is the first comparative discussion I've heard about AGM's. Haven't been looking again until very recently- I'm particularly interested since I need a battery for the boat now. Your comments are useful, thank you. Have any especially good links to other sites that have credible comparisons? WindSun's site has been a favorite for explaning the technology in good detail. Now I notice their prices for AGM's are indeed better than I've been seeing for Optima. Hmm, gonna have to do a bit more homework. But this is fun homework!<br /><br />The Surrette/Rolls is a very long lasting battery. But don't they also have a more rapid self-dischage which makes them a little less desireable for those of us who do not use our boats very frequently? <br /><br />The most premium performing (and priced!) battery I've ever heard of is some trolling battery which uses a silver chemistry and has the built-in charger. Remember that one? I do not recall its name. Supposedly also used by the Navy in submarines or something. Wasn't it/Isn't it something like $400?

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

BCP – I think the solar power web sites are the best place to get solid info about deep cycle batteries. They sell the good stuff, too. Not all deep-cycle solar batteries are built rugged for marine applications but if they carry the brand of battery you want sometimes they will order it if there is not a distribution limitation. And the batteries are typically less expense from the solar people…free s/h if you buy 500 or 1000-lbs of batteries at one time. <br /><br />Flooded cells will go up and down many more times than an AGM. If you only use your boat occasionally, you may be the ideal candidate for AGM bateries. They really don’t mind much about sitting for a few months without a maintenance charge, tho having one certainly won’t hurt…as you said, they have very low self-discharge.<br /><br />We have 24v systems; house (flooded) and starting (AGM). For starting, a pair of NorthStars at 168lbs replaced four DEKAs at 276lbs and was lighter than a pair of Concordes at 270lbs. On the other hand, we have a displacement hull so weight is a good thing … the more weight the faster we go. <br /><br />I don't know anything about the silver or charger-imbedded batteries. When it comes to military stuff, all bets are off. They have an unlimited budget.

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Optima Batteries Vs. Other types

Those silver based batteries were marketed to bass pros for a time. But I lost track of them. They were definitely not cheap!