Force 50, flooding carb

[rtraymond]

i have a 1988 force 50 (507x8b). the motor did not run when i got it but i figured i could get it up and running. I can get it started if i crack the throttle a little bit but it idles rough and coughs. I have replaced the fuel pump diaphragm, idle air mixture screw spring, float support spring, nozzle spring, and transfer port gaskets (recirculation gaskets?). stone cold i should have to choke it to get it to start (starve some of the air), but instead i have to crack the throttle (give it more air) to get it to start. Fuel will spurt out of a air bleed on the left side and a small hole cast in the right side. Fuel will also puddle up in the bottom of the carb and run out the air side. After releasing the choke, fuel dumps out the air side of the carb. I have tried adjusting the idle screw, throttle linkage, even tried adjusting the ignition timing to try and get it to idle smoother. Still no luck. My float needle came with a small rubber seat which i was going to install but it doesnt seem to fit into the hole. It would also cause the float to be set awfully low. Could this be my issue? new seat and a lower float setting? The primer bulb gets hard when i pump it up about 4 or 5 times which makes me think the float is seating properly. there is a small hole on the right side of the carb that spurts fuel when it stalls (and occasionally when it coughs). Should this be capped with a brass plug like the other holes? Any guidance would be appreciated. I would love to be able to spend memorial day weekend on the lake, but i won't try it with the motor like it is. I have no desire to paddle across the lake.

Thanks

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Force 50, flooding carb

Something doesn't sound right with your set up. Does your needle valve have a rubber tip? If so, I don't know for sure, but I would think that you would not use a rubber seat.

As far as the hole....can't say for sure without a picture, but I suspect that the hole you are referring to may be the fuel bowl air vent. If your primer bulb is getting hard and fuel is coming out of the vent, then you float level may be set too high. The fuel bowl must be vented to allow fuel to flow properly.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 50, flooding carb

Low speed jet clogged???J

 

[rtraymond]

Re: Force 50, flooding carb

float needle has a rubber tip. the rebuild kit i bought for the carb came with 4 different float needles, none of the new ones had rubber tips and they came with rubber seats. the needle that is in the carb now has a rubber tip. i believe your right about the small hole being a vent. the passage leads into the float bowl area with no jets or bleeds inserted. i am having trouble following the slow speed circuit within the carb. there is one jet in the center of the carb. It is a brass tube that runs from the float bowl to the top of the carb with a brass sleeve around the bottom half of it. I am assuming this is the main jet. I see no pickups for a slow speed. the brass tube has a hole that runs the length of it. I am guessing this is the slow speed which runs thru the top of the carb into passages throughout the body, releasing the fuel mixture at the top of the carb through tiny holes. I spray carb cleaner using a tube into each of the holes and it seems to travel freely throughout the carb as it should. I checked the float bowl height and it seemed fine. But i did it by eye quicky, mainly to see if the needly would seat when the float rose to the top of the bowl (trying to see what kind of clearance there was to see if the rubber seat was needed). I am guessing that the float needles and seats are for various models of carbs. It is possible that the kit i received was a multi-use kit as opposed to a model specific one as it contained several extra parts that were not needed. I found, through reading these forums, what my base idle screw setting should be at the start before making adjustments. Is there a base setting i should go with as far as the ignition timing goes? I have read talk about degrees, but this offers me little help as i have no degree markings on my flywheel or on my timing marks. there is a screw that when turned in, changes my throttle plate neutral setting and advances my timing together. this is the only adjustment that i can see for my timing. i do not have a timing light to shoot the timing nor do i have a tach. I am basically going by feel and ear as far as my rpms. I think i have it where it idles fine now but it seems that it is still flooding. I am going to launch it in the morning to test my water pump and decarb the engine if it is running fine. it still doesnt seem quite right. if you have any further guidance or suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your previous help and thank you in advance for any future aid.

 

[Shife]

Re: Force 50, flooding carb

Do you have a manual? It will cover every question you have posed in much more detail that can realistically be done for free by posters on an internet forum.

From what you have described and since you eyeballed your float setting, I'd wager that is the primary source of your current troubles. Get the manual and properly set up the carb. Then move on to things like the timing. Playing with settings without a manual or the required knowledge is a recipe for disappointment.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 50, flooding carb

When you took the carb apart was it full of varnish and junk?
If so the air passages need to be cleaned.The mainjet will need to be removed and the holes cleaned out.
Most carb soaks will ruin any plastic or rubber in them so be carefull.
Was the old needle and seat so bad you can't re-use?The kits they are selling are sold for a carb that I haven't found yet.Most cases I end up re-ising the old.J

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Force 50, flooding carb

The only way that I can think of for gas to come out of the fuel bowl vent is if there is too much gas in the fuel bowl. Make sure the little spring on the float itself is installed correctly. It should be installed in a manner so that it applies a small amount of upward pressure on the float to help it seat. If gas still comes out, then lower the float level. There is also a chance that you may have the wrong needle valve (too short)?

According to what I can gather on the timing, you should have 4 hash marks on your flywheel. 3 together and one by itself. Timing should be set at 30 degrees. You cannot set it properly without a timing light.

 

[rtraymond]

Re: Force 50, flooding carb

I am re-using the old needle valve, it is still good. Any links on where i can purchase a manual? Thanks for all of the help. I will get a manual and go through it again and repost with future issues. Thanks again for all of your help, you guys are great!

 

[rtraymond]

Re: Force 50, flooding carb

i got it running and took it out on the lake. it idled fine, was able to get it in gear (stalled when i first shifted into gear but if i shifted quickly and took it to 1/2 throttle it would stay running). once i was out of the no waze zone i took it to full throttle but the rpm's never came up higher than what they were at half throttle. i ran it at WOT for a bit to check the water pump and give the decarb a chance to run its course. I got no additional smoke from running Seafoam (i am guessing the motor wasn't carboned up too bad). at no point during the course did the rpm's ever come up much over idle. at one point i shifted into neutral, idled for half a minute or so then shifted into reverse. the motor instantly stalled. it cranked through 2 batteries trying like the dickens to fire (popped and sputtered many times but never actually idled on its own). I finally gave up on it and paddled 3 hours into the wind back to the landing. Any thoughts? I am ordering a manual but i am not sure whether to get the SELOC or the Clymers manual. I have heard good and bad about both but never used either myself in any of my past project "vehicles". Any advice? If mechanical inclination has anything to do with it, I was a deisel mechanic for 8 years on trucks and currently trainnig on motorcycles so I know my way around an engine. Its the particulars of outboards that are giving me trouble.