1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Cut2Short

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I am struggling with getting the 1988 150hp XR4 Merc to run right, as I accelerate out of the hole, the motor will begin to take off (rev up) but then dies. If I choke it until it starts to lope, basically over fueling it, the motor will pick up and take off. Thought I?d summarize the various things I?ve either measured or repaired since I last asked for help on various forums and hopefully will get some help/advice along the way.

Here?s what I?ve got:

Compression in all 6 cylinders range between 125 and 130 psi.

DVA readings ranged at the 6 different coils, running in neutral at 1000 rpm and 2000 rpm range between 210 and 230 DVA, when rpm?s increased to 3,000 and 4,000, the readings increased between 250 and 260 DVA. No voltage drop seen on any of the coils through entire rpm range.

Spark plug wise, I put a rinky dinky tester on the coils and found that the spark will jump ? inch (2/0) on all 6 coils, I didn?t look to see what the max gap they would jump. I did replace the spark plugs.

Replaced the advance/idle stabilizer module

I have the timing set, when cranking 7* BTDC, and 22* AFTDC for max timing advance. When running through the rpm?s with the boat in the water, in neutral, not in gear, the timing at 1,000 was 9*, at 2000 it was 3*, at 3,000 it was TDC, at 4,000 it was 8 ATDC. I ran through the timing with it in neutral but I think it shows the mechanical timing advance is working.

Tried my best to have the roller cam mark aligned with the center of the throttle roller, seems to be by the book. Played with moving the roller away from the cam by .01 but it didn?t change the condition/operation of the motor significantly

I put a diaphragm kit into the fuel pump and replaced the in-line fuel filter.

The motor has the WH-41 or WH-41A carburetor?s, I?m guessing that it is probably the 41 since it had the .052 in the idle bleeder jets. I re-jetted the carburetor for the elevation of the lake I?m on, 6,000 ft, reducing the size of the jets for the Main Fuel and Vent by .004, and increased the Idle Bleeder jet by .004, from the sea level sizes per the service manual. After test running it, thought it would be better to fatten (richen) up the mix and split the differences for the Main Fuel and Vent Jets so that they were only reduced by .002 from sea level sizing. (Sea Level, Original Jetting: Main => .074, Vent=>.076, Idle=>.052, Current Jets: Main=>.072, Vent=>.074, Idle=>.056)

I?m aligned with the fact that my problem has to be carburetion; I was hoping that maybe someone could help me understand what role the various jets play in the carburetor. My guess is the main fuel jet supplies the fuel, the vent jet provides atmospheric relief to the carburetor bowl and the idle bleed jet provide the air for the fuel mixture? Am I even close?

As I change the Idle Bleeder jet smaller the mixture gets richer, as I increase the Main fuel jet larger the mixture would get richer, but how does the vent jet play into the mix?

Tomorrow I was going to change the idle bleeder jet back to .052 and see if making it richer will cure my acceleration issue. If it doesn?t should I be looking to go to .048? I think that size is stock in the WH-41A carbs for sea level? I was also going to change the main fuel jet to .070 and the vent jet to .072, as called for in the manual for this elevation to see the impacts. I was thinking that this would set up the carbs for 6,000 ft elevation, as if they were the 41A models and be a richer mix than the 41 models.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Steve
 

sschefer

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Steve, I know you've been working on this a long time.. When I get home tonight I'll send you a pm with the jetting charts I have for the 41's. I think if you get everything back to what is recommended you stand a better chance of finding the real problem.
 

Cut2Short

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

I'd sure appreciate it, nothing like starting off atleast at the right place.

Steve
 

Faztbullet

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

From what you posted you are way lean at mid-range pull over, put the 52's back in and retest. The idle jets are backwards as the bigger the number the leaner the mixture(more air) and the 1.78 gear ratio likely isnt helping
 

j_martin

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Naw, that thing is set up so pigish to start with you can't be that far off. You have a real fuel problem. I'd rig a fuel pressure gauge. Just replace the plug in the port side of the bottom carb with a nipple, and rig a plastic line to whatever 15 lb gauge you can find in your lap. I think you'll find that when you can it, pressure goes to zero. Find the problem, be it collapsing fuel hose, fuel pump, soft pulse hose, etc.

Another thing to think about. If this boat was just brought up from the flatland, and the XR4 is marginal power, and it was propped pretty high, you might have gone over the edge in setup. You will lose some power at elevation, no matter what you do. There's just less fuel-air mixture to burn.

hope it helps
john
 

Cut2Short

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Still Tryin'

Put the .052's back in the idle bleeder jets and gave it a try, unfortunately, it didn't fix the problem. I also hooked up a pressure gauge to the carburetors as suggested, at idle it's running at about 5.5 psi and when accelerating it increased to 8 psi. The pressure stayed good until the motor died. There was no sudden loose of fuel pressure that I saw. I also tried to put the .076 back into the vent, it got worst so then I tried to go all of the way back to .70 in the Main Fuel Jet, and .072 in the vent jet, things were headed down hill , so I went back to where I started the day at, .052 in the idle bleeder jet, .072 in the Main Fuel Jets, and .074 in the Vent Jet.

I'm getting frustrated, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Steve
 

j_martin

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

I'm assuming you swapped BTDC and ATDC in the timing commentary. Timing should get earlier as the throttle lever is advanced.

It ain't rocket science. With stock guts in the carbs, it should run abeit a little piggish at altitude.

As far as I know, the only difference between the 41 and the A is the A is fatter on the idle mix.

Is there a chance that the exhaust is restricted?

Are we talking about an engine that ran right, and now doesn't, or something totally unknown, like a fresh bought "rebuilt"?
 

Cut2Short

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Thanks for the correction on the timing side of things, the challenge is that I just purchased the motor so it's an unknown. The motor idles fine, a little fast but if I bring it down too far it eventually dies. Once I get it up to full speed, it runs great, it's just getting it to that level. Like you said it's not rocket science but it sure has me stumped.

Steve
 

j_martin

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Thanks for the correction on the timing side of things, the challenge is that I just purchased the motor so it's an unknown. The motor idles fine, a little fast but if I bring it down too far it eventually dies. Once I get it up to full speed, it runs great, it's just getting it to that level. Like you said it's not rocket science but it sure has me stumped.

Steve

You might be looking at something internal not right. Pistons in wrong bank, wrong pistons, wrong reeds, stupid porting experiment, etc.

Or, as I said, somebody heard from somebody heard from somebody that if you drilled or plugged something in those "stupidly designed" you'd make a 200 out of it, and they did it.

You need to talk to somebody that's probably tried them all at one time. Go ask T-Rex on Screamandfly.com
 

sschefer

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

You've got the jetting charts and you have the carbs jetted baseline correct so you're pretty much at square one now. That's a huge advantage so go after those carbs now and let us know what you find.

As a side note, I've taken apart a few used carbs and have yet to find one that wasn't taken apart previously. The WH-40's I just recently did for the FrankenMerc project had their floats set all over the map and new style rubber tipped needles so I knew someone had been in there. It was no wonder I got the whole set for 30.00.. The owner was probably as frustrated as you.
 

Cut2Short

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Any good sources out there for a carb kit? and what level of kit should I be looking at basically just gaskets?

Steve
 

sschefer

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Gaskets, needles and seats. I believe you have the WH carbs on that so floats are NLA and it's rare to find anyone that has them. I did find a couple of them on boats.net once but I passed them up in favor of a full repair kit. The full repair kit doesn't have them nor does it have jet holders but it has everything else to make your carb like new. I think I paid 80.00 each for them. You might want to order a couple of jet holders also. They tend to fracture if the P/O over tightened them. Make sure you checked them under a magnifying glass, they'll open up and mess with you if they're broke. I've got 4 bad ones in my 40's.
 

Cut2Short

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

Thanks for the jet chart sschefer, they give some reasurrance as to the direction I'm going.

The carbs all look pretty good, a little bit of fuel/oil residue when I take the front off. This weekend I was thinking about first off taking the vent jet out, somone on another site recommended it, then go back with the .076 and then to the .074. If that doesn't do anything, I was thinking I'd keep focusing on the idle bleeder adjustment and maybe try reducing it again to .050 or even try .048.

Lastly, if none of that works, I'd go ahead and invest another $240 in carb kits and go through them in great detail, making sure to check the jet holders and float adjustments. Sound like a plan? At least it's somewhere to go from here. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions so far, I'll keep you all posted on the progress.


Steve
 

Hackamore

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Re: 1988 150hp Mercury XR4 - Can't get out of the Hole

I'm just an old cowboy that has worked on all sort of motors all my life, and learned what little I know from the school of hard knocks, but I never heard anyone ask if, when you cleaned rebuilt the carbs, did you chemically vat clean them with a good cleaner and blow all the air and gas passages out with air before reassembling them. To me that is very important. Just a thought, I think it is very much a carb problem or it would not get by it when you choked it to get it up and running after it stopped. Good luck.
 
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