bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

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QC

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

If he runs at 4600 rpm, the Alpha will only be 6% over its HP max. (most agree 300HP fine).
Actually the number is 300 hp propshaft, so he's right at it with 319. I have to say I sure had no idea where you were headed with your post either. I was going to give you an atta boy for getting the math right :p :)
 

jperki00

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

hey thanks everyone for the thoughts. i'm gonna go ahead and pull the cam while i have the engine out of the boat. i'd rather be safe than sorry.

what is the maximum duration i can go on my cam w/ stock manifolds & risers?

i'm looking at one here's specs:comp marine cam, duration .050" 226/236 Lift .480/.489 LSA 112 is the duration to high don't wanna chip teeth either.

i plan to put a drive shower on it.

i kinda wish i had the 1.5 gear to. but i got a good deal on this complete unit.
 

jperki00

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

oh and my peak torque was at about 4600 as was cam design. as your rpms carry on you can create more hp w/ your torque curving off
 

John_S

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

hey thanks everyone for the thoughts. i'm gonna go ahead and pull the cam while i have the engine out of the boat. i'd rather be safe than sorry.

what is the maximum duration i can go on my cam w/ stock manifolds & risers?

i'm looking at one here's specs:comp marine cam, duration .050" 226/236 Lift .480/.489 LSA 112 is the duration to high don't wanna chip teeth either.

i plan to put a drive shower on it.

i kinda wish i had the 1.5 gear to. but i got a good deal on this complete unit.

To help you with a cam selection, it would be nice to know the heads, pistons, roller or flat, intake/carb, and how the rest of it is built.
 

jperki00

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

ported and polished set of double humps,2.02int & 1.65 exh. milled 62cc. i've gasket matched all the intake and exhaust ports for smother air flow, dual plane intake. 650 holly. 1.5 roller rocker arms. flat tapet cam.

4340 external balance steel crank, 4bolt mains. standard I-beam rods. rods & pistons have been weight matched to.

i know what i want my lift on the cam to be. whats a safe number on the duration not to have to worry about water reversion?
 

Don S

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

What you should actually do, is to start posting a new thread in the proper forum for each different question, instead of moving this one from forum to forum as your questions change.
I know i won't be reading all of it.
 

picklenjim

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

ported and polished set of double humps,2.02int & 1.65 exh. milled 62cc. i've gasket matched all the intake and exhaust ports for smother air flow, dual plane intake. 650 holly. 1.5 roller rocker arms. flat tapet cam.

4340 external balance steel crank, 4bolt mains. standard I-beam rods. rods & pistons have been weight matched to.

i know what i want my lift on the cam to be. whats a safe number on the duration not to have to worry about water reversion?

With all the work you have in this engine you should go to a better exhaust system anyway to compliment all the other performance enhancements. Exhaust is one of the first things to improve when looking for performance.Then you wouldn't have to worry about reversion either and could stay with the same cam.My quess is it may run low 60's.
 

John_S

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

ported and polished set of double humps,2.02int & 1.65 exh. milled 62cc. i've gasket matched all the intake and exhaust ports for smother air flow, dual plane intake. 650 holly. 1.5 roller rocker arms. flat tapet cam.

4340 external balance steel crank, 4bolt mains. standard I-beam rods. rods & pistons have been weight matched to.

i know what i want my lift on the cam to be. whats a safe number on the duration not to have to worry about water reversion?

If you have flat-top pistons, you are running on the high side of compression for a boat motor.

If you are staying with the standard exhaust manifolds, go with a dual pattern cam, where the exhaust has a little more duration and lift than intake. It helps compensate for the more restricted exhaust. As mentioned, the LSA is the important spec. That comp cam is probably fine, as long as it indicates you have good idle quality.
 

jperki00

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

so w/ my given set up and unfortunately w/ out going to custom manifolds and risers. i'm gonna have to stick w/ the stock ones. how would this cam do?

rpm range:1300-5600
duration: @.050 in. 218 ex.224
lift:in. 462 ex 477
lobe sep 112
 

wca_tim

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

that's exactly the same cam that's in my 383.I would say it'll be iffy in a 350. You can see the idle quality I get in the vid below. Note that that was with world products sportsman heads, ported, and running about 10:1 compression ratio. Usually you can assume that going from a 383 to a 350 is work about one step in cam duration (more displacement same overlap acts like a smaller cam). I am running long risers. the next step down in that series of cam would be a safer bet in a 350, but it depends a lot on how you're going to use it. I would probably use the xm270h you're looking at as a starting point. use 1.6 ratio rocker arms. mine will idle down to 500-600 rpms, but again on a 350 you'll get a little rougher idle with the same cam.

You might watch on ebay for a set of the longer risers that bolts on to a factory merc manifold... never know. I bought my imco powerflows for a total of about 800. the manifolds were unused and in a box for 600, the risers off ebay for 200 used and in great shape. that's far less than the almost 3000 for the same set-up new. just be careful, leaking manifolds or risers will destroy your engine in no time.

Agree with John on compression ratio, but note that if you run a cooler thermostat, and if the blocks been zero-decked to give a tight quench, you can get by with a little more than 10:1 with no problems on 93 octane pump gas. My cranking compression with the wp heads was 195 on all 8 and I never had a ping on pump gas. I did run it a little fat to keep things cool though...

note that I run my alpha drive behind 450 horsepower and have run it turning 5000+ rpms for 10s of minutes or more without letting up on more than one occassion. run good lube, change it often.

If you're going to run the boat hard, definately get a good sized external oil cooler - your bottom end will thank you. take the oil pressure off the front of the block and watch it drop during a hard run as the oil temp rises... it'll make a believer out of you...

Your boat will be faster with the 1.65 / 1.62 gear in it and higher pitch props. The sweet spot for prop efficiency at the diameters you'll be running is 26-29" pitch. You'll still be below that with 1.65. prop it and go. I'm seriously contemplating having a 1.65 mor even 1.84 gear set put into my alpha ss....
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

that's exactly the same cam that's in my 383.I would say it'll be iffy in a 350. You can see the idle quality I get in the vid below. Note that that was with world products sportsman heads, ported, and running about 10:1 compression ratio. Usually you can assume that going from a 383 to a 350 is work about one step in cam duration (more displacement same overlap acts like a smaller cam). I am running long risers. the next step down in that series of cam would be a safer bet in a 350, but it depends a lot on how you're going to use it. I would probably use the xm270h you're looking at as a starting point. use 1.6 ratio rocker arms. mine will idle down to 500-600 rpms, but again on a 350 you'll get a little rougher idle with the same cam.

You might watch on ebay for a set of the longer risers that bolts on to a factory merc manifold... never know. I bought my imco powerflows for a total of about 800. the manifolds were unused and in a box for 600, the risers off ebay for 200 used and in great shape. that's far less than the almost 3000 for the same set-up new. just be careful, leaking manifolds or risers will destroy your engine in no time.

Agree with John on compression ratio, but note that if you run a cooler thermostat, and if the blocks been zero-decked to give3 a tight quench, you can get by with a little more than 10:1 with no problems on 93 octane pump gas. My cranking compression with the wp heads was 195 on all 6 and I never had a ping on pump gas. I did run it a little fat to keep things cool though...

note that I run my alpha drive behind 450 horsepower and have run it turning 5000+ rpms for 10s of minutes or more without letting up on more than one occassion. run good lube, change it often.

If you're going to run the boat hard, definately get a good sized external oil cooler - your bottom end will thank you. take the oil pressure off the front of the block and watch it drop during a hard run as the oil temp rises... it'll make a believer out of you...

Your boat will be faster with the 1.65 / 1.62 gear in it and higher pitch props. The sweet spot for prop efficiency at the diameters you'll be running is 26-29" pitch. You'll still be below that with 1.65. prop it and go. I'm seriously contemplating having a 1.65 mor even 1.84 gear set put into my alpha ss....

I would probably use the xm270h ;)

Second the above..marine cams with 112lsa are pretty safe...As to your exhasut you can run marine grade silicone tubing to your hull you can actually create a dry exhasut if youd like...That is dump the water at the back of the boat and reversion is now longer a issue..
 

jperki00

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

so that leads me back to blocking off the riser and tapping in further back on the exhaust. w/ out water in the manifolds and risers how much will it raise temps under the dog house? is it dangerous? will it melt the rubber exhaust tubbing i plan to clamp to my SS tips?

if i can find a set of custom risers on ebay will they allow the water to flow into my stock manifolds.
 

wca_tim

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

so that leads me back to blocking off the riser and tapping in further back on the exhaust. w/ out water in the manifolds and risers how much will it raise temps under the dog house? is it dangerous? will it melt the rubber exhaust tubbing i plan to clamp to my SS tips?

if i can find a set of custom risers on ebay will they allow the water to flow into my stock manifolds.

NOOO on blocking off! all you do is extend the center portion of the pipe so the water and exhaust mix further back. The entire manifold and riser are jacketed and then in the back part of the riser the water is mixed in with the exhaust. lots of folks weld an extension onto the inner riser pipe to extend how far back the exhaust is isolated from the water... further back, less chance of reversion issues. make sense?

depends on what you can find to buy. ebay is not the only place to find used things. again, have to be careful with some of that, but stainless risers are pretty tough and usually fine.
 

cr2k

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

That's a lot of HP for an Alpha drive.

Never mind the outdrive. That's a lot of speed for a bayliner's 1/4 in thick hull.
one good swell and kaboom. Fiberglass shower.
 

wca_tim

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

Never mind the outdrive. That's a lot of speed for a bayliner's 1/4 in thick hull.
one good swell and kaboom. Fiberglass shower.

I was kinda wonderin when someone would bring that up... perhaps a bit of an overdramatization, but it is a legitimate consideration...

Handling can also be pretty squirrely depending on hull design and how fast...

I'm assuming assuming OP will be in the low - mid 60's, don't think it is a major issue...
 

John_S

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

I was kinda wonderin when someone would bring that up... perhaps a bit of an overdramatization, but it is a legitimate consideration...

Handling can also be pretty squirrely depending on hull design and how fast...

I'm assuming assuming OP will be in the low - mid 60's, don't think it is a major issue...

I agree on the dramatization.

The boat is a 93' bayliner 2052. While I didn't check, it is likely it also had a 5.7L option. The 350 will have the same weight and balance of the 305. The Bayliner hulls were a little narrower, and had a little more V than latter versions. It is similiar to my '97 2050 CL. My bet is, he will be right at or very close to the 60 mph wot. At 55 mph the hull starts to gets a little loose, but no serious chine walk. A set of smart tabs will more than make up for any control loss.
 

jtmarten

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

Interesting on the cam discussion. I ran a mild, 0.501/0.527 lift, 280/290 duration cam, which I believe was 224/234 @ 0.050 lift, in my jetboat's 454 with log manifolds/snails. I used Rhoads lifters to scrub some of the lift/duration at idle. Never had an issue with reversion, ran her for 6yrs that way before selling her last year.
 

z284u2try

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

Never mind the outdrive. That's a lot of speed for a bayliner's 1/4 in thick hull.
one good swell and kaboom. Fiberglass shower.


I don't know about that most bayliners run low to mid 50's out of the box and don't have problems will the hull cracking. I have first hand seen many bayliners hit large swells/ocean chop and come out unscaved
 

wca_tim

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Re: bayliner hotrod project, help w/ top speed!!

I agree on the dramatization.

The boat is a 93' bayliner 2052. While I didn't check, it is likely it also had a 5.7L option. The 350 will have the same weight and balance of the 305. The Bayliner hulls were a little narrower, and had a little more V than latter versions. It is similiar to my '97 2050 CL. My bet is, he will be right at or very close to the 60 mph wot. At 55 mph the hull starts to gets a little loose, but no serious chine walk. A set of smart tabs will more than make up for any control loss.

I've never had one, but know they're a lot lighter construction / budget build than some. Also see a ton of them on the water, old and new, if they were that fragile I bet it would be different.

to the OP, if you don't have some kind of tabs, they can be really helpful in increasing stability, etc... I've got a set of smart tabs I just took off that have one broken shock. If you want to get the replacement piece, send me a PM and I'll ship them to you for the cost of shipping by freight. They're the stronger, stainless bass-boat version and held up pretty well to the abuse I put them through, but I went to a stronger and larger set of helm adjustable tabs.

Have fun with it!!! Cheers, Tim
 
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