Bad Ignition Safety Switch

[bruceb58]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

studying my wiring diagram over again???
Looked at the OMC 4.3 wiring diagram in the sticky,,,sure goes to a circuit breaker.
#9 circled item would be it.
How much U wanna bet? Bruce
I got 100 on it
If you are going to make a STATEMENT, might be good to KNOW if its correct first!

You may have it but I guarantee that the safety lanyard does not feed it. The safety lanyard goes to a completely different place if you have the 4.3 HO. So I take it your engine doen't have a distributor?

 

[DeaconBlues]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Ok, so according to a parts diagram I looked at, I do have a relay (could be misnamed. Square little box, and when I take the cover off it looks like the attached picture.

I turn the boat to run and ground the test lead and touch A and get a bright light. I attach the test lead to A and touch D(ground) and again bright light. I can't test C because i'm told someone needs to try and start the boat, so until I have a helper, cant test and move the key to start.

Try to jump from A to C with my tester to make it crank (not even sure I'm doing that right), I get nothing.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

That's your start assist relay. Nothing to do with the ignition.

Download the LK manual.

Also take your test light and hide it. Then get a hand held meter and make your measurements.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Deacon...you don't have this circuit breaker. Check your voltage at the coil with the key in the run position.

Ok, sorry, but I'm a rookie.

The coil has two harnesses coming into it and of course the wire to the distributer.

Where do I put my tester on the coil to see if its hot?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Where do I put my tester on the coil to see if its hot?

Download the LK manual and read it. Things will make a whole lot more sense.

I have the real paper LK manual at home. When I go home tonight I am going to take a better look at it. The one in the sticky is a little hard to read.

In the mean time, measure the voltage at the safety lanyard to make sure you have 12V when the ignition switch is in the run position.

 

[Juniinc]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

"Even yours does not go through a 12.5A breaker after the safety lanyard on its way to the coil'

Jeez!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I may have it,,, changing your story now? WOW

I'm an master/journey electrician in both AC/DC.

Could U please please explain that,,,,
U have 1 ignition circuit looping thru battery > ignition SW > kill SW > circuit breaker > ignition coil / module ,,,, how can a lanyard SW is not connected in this looped circuit.
Don't need your guarantee.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Could U please please explain that,,,,
U have 1 ignition circuit looping thru battery > ignition SW > kill SW > circuit breaker > ignition coil / module ,,,, how can a lanyard SW is not connected in this looped circuit.
What guarantee Do U have?
Put Your money where your mouth is,,,,
I got hundred on it.

Deacon...you can ignore this.

Junninc...Look at the schematic. That circuit breaker gets its power from two possible places...from the alternator or the start assist solenoid. Again, this is only for an OMC HO 4.3. if you don't have the 4.3 HO version, this circuit breaker is not there.

You have a distributor on your engine?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

how can a lanyard SW is not connected in this looped circuit.

With this type of ignition, the safety lanyard disables the ignition module. The 4.3L HO ignition is very unique since its a distributorless ignition...uses a crank sensor to time the spark plug firing.

You better hope you don't have this style of ignition system on your boat. If you do, you are SOL if that module fails.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

I've been trying to read the LK manual all day, but it is difficult to follow on the computer because of the scan job (awesome that it is out there though). Not to mention its difficult to follow because I am new to this.

Everything I am reading there, and also Don's stuff about testing the electric system doesnt seem to mention my problem.

I can't seem to find anywhere where it talks about a starter motor turning as it should and nothing else happening anywhere.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Let's back up a second and start with some basics. Is the starter motor running and the engine is turning? You see the crankshaft rotating??

 

[DeaconBlues]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

In the mean time, measure the voltage at the safety lanyard to make sure you have 12V when the ignition switch is in the run position.

I did that. I don't have a voltage meter but the light is brightly lit.

So tell me, what does my tether kill thing actually do? If I were not ahving any problems at all, and pulled that tether out and turned the key, what would happen? Nothing at all?

I ask, because again, I can take the two wires off the back of the kill switch and turn the key and the same problem, starter screams, nothing else happens?

i got to believe this is something simple. I jiggle the tether a few times, engine acts like its going to die, then does die, then wont restart and I just hear a starter motor running, but the engine does not crank? Why. Coil not getting power? Why? Is there a fuse in between those two things that blew (or breaker)?

 

[DeaconBlues]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Let's back up a second and start with some basics. Is the starter motor running and the engine is turning? You see the crankshaft rotating??

No, i must have not been clear from the beginning. The starter motor turns fast and loud, the engine does not crank, no flywheel movement. Just the starter turning.

 

[Juniinc]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Deacon...you can ignore this.

Junninc...Look at the schematic. That circuit breaker gets its power from two possible places...from the alternator or the start assist solenoid. Again, this is only for an OMC HO 4.3. if you don't have the 4.3 HO version, this circuit breaker is not there.

You have a distributor on your engine?

Bruce , I looked at it.
It gets power from the alternator,,, really irrelevant what I have here.
look at it again there is a secondary purple wire(circled in 8 I think) goes thru a breaker then to the coil pack comes from the ignition SW.
It is a battery fed 1phase DC circuit w/ fused circuits branched off.
Eventally it is all linked together,,,
I see U are an highly respected Admral,,,
everyone makes mistakes.
U swore it doesn't go to a circuit breaker well mine does,,,
I should've use the term breaker instead of relay,,,
Even though I don't think it is a big deal as long as he knows feeding his coil.

 

[Juniinc]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

a new starter is needed,,,bad armature or teeth are all gone/worn.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

a new starter is needed,,,bad armature or teeth are all gone/worn.

ok, so I thought that from the beginning. Two problems I still don't understand?

1. Brand new starter worked like a charm for two trips
- Maybe I just got a lemon

2. still don't understand this tether. Does it only kill the boat when running, but not prevent it from starting? Why is it that when I disconnect the wires, or conntect them to the switch and put the tether on, or put the wires together, or etc.... I get the same result every time.

What does the tether prevent? The engine from firing???

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

The safety lanyard only kills the ignition. It has nothing to do with the starter.

You are going to need to pull the starter and inspect the teeth on the ring gear on your flywheel. If that is ok, then there is something wrong with how the bendix is being pushed out. Has nothing to do with the armature.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Ok, well looks like we were chasing a ghost, really sorry for the confusion.

Here is one final question though. My want to be mechanic buddy kept talking about the cilanoid and how it wasn't engaging or something. I always thought if that were the case, you would just get clicking. He even heard that loud whining sound over the phone and still insisted on that?

Just trying to make sure I am still not explaining something wrong. Mainly because another guy I talked to swore we had a boat once that had a kill runninng directly to the celanoid?

Feel free to shoot all these possibilities down! I just had the starter off last week and am not anxious to pull it again and send it back until I am sure that is what I am dealing with.

Expecially being that this all started when I fiddled with that tether switch. Is it possible that just causeing the engine to shudder and die like that several times burned up the starter. It will seem to me that me messing with that switch was would more likely cause a short and blow a fuse or something.

Just seems like an awfully big coincidence doesnt it? That this all happened right after I started causing the engine to shudder and die using the lanyard switch.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

Here is how the circuit works because I think you might be confused. The start terminal of your ignition switch goes to a relay(the one that you were probing from your previous post). When this relay is energized, 12V is then directed to your starter solenoid. This solenoid does 2 things and this is how it works...There is what looks like a plunger that is within a coil in this solenoid. When the coil is energized it pulls the plunger(for lack of a better word) to the end of a travel. This plunger pulls the bendix gear so that the bendix engages into your ring gear. Also at the end of the travel, it connects your battery 12V to the starter motor.

It sounds like the solenoid is operating because you can hear the starter motor operating. The problem is why the bendix gear isn't engaging with the ring gear on the flywheel and that is why you are going to need to remove it to find out why. You will probably find everything you need to know at that point.

 

[Don S]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

The problem is why the bendix gear isn't engaging with the ring gear on the flywheel and that is why you are going to need to remove it to find out why. You will probably find everything you need to know at that point.

I agree with Bruce 100%.
I would also be careful of information given by Juniinc, I see a lot of his posts where he explains how things work in his opinion, whice isn't exactly how things work in the real world.
NOTE: The kill switch shuts off the ignition system. Has nothing to do with the cranking circuit in any way, shape, or form. No different in a 91 OMC 4.3L HO. The kill switch breaks the purple wire to disable the ignition.

 

[Juniinc]

Re: Bad Ignition Safety Switch

I agree with Bruce 100%.
I would also be careful of information given by Juniinc, I see a lot of his posts where he explains how things work in his opinion, whice isn't exactly how things work in the real world.
NOTE: The kill switch shuts off the ignition system. Has nothing to do with the cranking circuit in any way, shape, or form. No different in a 91 OMC 4.3L HO. The kill switch breaks the purple wire to disable the ignition.

LOL,,,
& All I see is U stating pretty much the same thing as what I said in post #6.
"I see a lot of his posts where he explains how things work in his opinion, whice isn't exactly how things work in the real world"
How many is a lot? I wonder
Would U be kind enough to point out in which post? Don