Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

[Trimitup]

Hey Everyone.

So I posted not long ago about buying my first boat. Some discussion was had and I passed on the one in question.
Then I saw an ad for a 1987 17 ish foot Invader. It had a Mercruiser Engine and an Alpha One O/D. I had researched enough to realize that was a solid setup. So i bought it the boat. It was the original owner, original trailer, used 2 weeks a year, polished twice a season. Beautiful boat all around. Plus he threw in a pile of water toys. I felt I got a great deal.

Here's the rub. I get home and do some more research. It's a MCM 244. The 3.7, the 470. What I am now learning is the worst engine to own. Now I'm really worried, I read horror story after horror story and I'm feeling totally sunk as a first time boat buyer. Not to mention there is anti-freeze leaking from the gasket around the water pump on the front of the engine. He said he just had the gasket (not the shaft seals) replaced but why would that be leaking?

Ok, Now I have some questions... My engine serial # is B600490. Do the last 3 digits mean it's a 490 not a 470 or is that just coincidence? Where does the 470 come from? As well, does the fact it's a 1987 make it a newer, possible less prone to trouble engine? I read all about the double seals on the cam shaft and I understand it's a big deal. But had they fixed that problem by 87? (Not beyond me, just huge pain in the ***.)

Ok. Long post. I know. The boat is in great shape and putting a new motor in is the way to go if that is the case.

I have a pile more questions but I'll leave it there for now. I literally wait (not sleeping) for some reassuring responses.

Signed,

Ascending the learning curve at a breakneck pace.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

I literally wait (not sleeping) for some reassuring responses.

Ayuh,.... It's gonna be a Loooooooooooooooooooooooong night.....

Did you buy it Right,..??

If so, SELL it, Now.....

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

OK the first thing you need to do is calm down. Things are not that bad. First forget about putting in another engine, Not going to be worth it end of story! There are exactly four got that, four things to be concerned about on that engine. One: you need a four inch heat exchanger, you got a 87 boat, it has a four inch exchanger no problem. Two: charging system, If it works now, forget about it till you have a problem, than change to alternator. Three: Head gasket First chance you get, do a compression check, if the numbers are OK then don't worry about it. Four: Coolant leaks from the water pump camshaft seals, OK worry about that! You gotta fix that asap. Read this http://www.sterndrives.com/470information/470coolantleakrepair.html If you are at all handy you can fix that yourself in a few hours probably coat $100 in parts. Do a search here for Speedie Sleeves. Don't know what a dealer would charge. You need to find out the last time the impeller was changed, if more than 3 years, get it replaced. Now the good things, if it runs well now, once you get the seals fixed you should have years of fun with it. That engine should make a 17 foot boat RUN. Good luck, Illegitimi non carborundum

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

I reread your post about the gasket leaking. I suspect that it just looks like the gasket is leaking, and the coolant is really coming out of the weep hole in the housing. There are two seals on the cam with a space in between. If the front seal fails, coolant under pressure leaks into the space and then leaks out of the weep hole rather than past the second seal into the crankcase. look for the a very small hole on the lower starboard side of the circulating pump. With the engine running you should be able to see the coolant leaking out. DO NOT under any circumstances try to plug the hole. By the way welcome to the "470 Club"LOL

 

[Newbie@boats]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

I have a 470 and I am in the process of replacing the seals now.

With all the parts and gaskets and tools in hand its taking me about 2-4 hours.

Just watch out for that oil pan gasket as you pull that timing cover off

I am also 17, so for someone with more experience or a little older it might be a little easier.

 

[badkins50]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

I have to totally agree with Terry. Listen to what is being said, do your research, take care of the little things and enjoy. Parts can some times be hard to find. I as well bought my first boat with a 470 3.7L Alpha One (1984) in it. My boat is 19 ft. and we enjoy it. Plenty of power to pull your water toys. It's a good strong motor until you have trouble then you can join the 470 hater club . I look at it this way, it's my first boat and I didn't pay much for it, so by the time I buy my next boat I will take along plenty of knowledge with me. Good luck and have fun.

 

[nola mike]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

By the way welcome to the "470 Club"LOL

yeah, we're lepers here. at least we're better than the OMC crowd. now you're forever tainted as well...

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

I have several customers with 470's, and the only time I see 'em is for tune-ups and oil changes...and very occasional cam seals. They are a durable, strong engine with a few well known minor quirks.

 

[crazyinkc]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

I ran the heck out of my 470 and it was bullet proof. I had it in an 87 Baretta 17ss and it would haul. I could boat all day on a half a tank of gas too. I wish I still had that boat, I traded it off on a 23ft cabin cruiser that turned out to be a big POS.

 

[achris]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

...Ok, Now I have some questions... My engine serial # is B600490. Do the last 3 digits mean it's a 490 not a 470 or is that just coincidence?

Just a coincidence... The serial number is just that, a number, but a really important number. That number is what you will use when buying parts. Also find the drive serial number. You'll need that for drive parts.

Where does the 470 come from?

The original 224cid engines were 170hp, and being a 4 cylinder, '470' was born. 4 cylinder, 170 hp.

As well, does the fact it's a 1987 make it a newer, possible less prone to trouble engine?

For some items, yes. the early models had a 3" heat exchanger, you have a 4". It's close cooled because it has an iron head and an ali block.

I read all about the double seals on the cam shaft and I understand it's a big deal. But had they fixed that problem by 87? (Not beyond me, just huge pain in the ***.)

Nope.... Still a PITA.

Ok. Long post. I know. The boat is in great shape and putting a new motor in is the way to go if that is the case.

I have a pile more questions but I'll leave it there for now. I literally wait (not sleeping) for some reassuring responses.

Signed,

Ascending the learning curve at a breakneck pace.

The 470 had issues, no doubt, but they are not that bad. Once those issues are sorted, they are VERY good. Strong, torquey, and really good fuel economy... And for 170hp, quite a light engine... Drag racers used to love them. Apparently they put different heads on them and get over 250hp!!! So you can see that the bottom end is tough.

If it were mine I would look at rigging up a water pressure alarm switch and gauge. That way you should never get it too hot... That's bad for them too.... Open deck block.... They pop head gaskets when they get hot.

Download the manuals from the ADULTS ONLY thread in this forum and have a look at what you have... You'll enjoy it. Your engine manual is #8. Your drive is manual #6.

Chris.....

 

[Trimitup]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

Well, I can't thank all of you enough. You've given me the insight to keep it.

I'll rip apart the front of the engine and figure out why the coolant is bleeding out of all sides of the gasket. Thanks to all of you, especially stonyloam for listing my problems (I love lists!) and to achris for the excellent reply.

Now with my renewed confidence and thoughts of awesome wake in my rear view mirror we have been hit with a major spring storm. Wind, snow, rain, hail and the works just hit us. It's supposed to be here till Tuesday. I'll be pulling it into the garage and getting busy this weekend. I wanna be afloat on May long weekend.

Thanks again everyone and I'll be sure to keep everyone posted with the progress and pictures.

This forum rules!!

Justin

 

[Newbie@boats]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

The only thing I would like to remind you about is the oil pan gasket.

I didn't have any problem doing it with the motor in the boat.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

Well, I can't thank all of you enough. You've given me the insight to keep it.

I'll rip apart the front of the engine and figure out why the coolant is bleeding out of all sides of the gasket.
Justin

If the coolant is leaking out all around the gasket, its the gasket not the seals. The gasket was prob installed wrong or the cover is not torqued down as it should be, or the cover is damaged.

If you bought that boat from the origional owner and he truly took that good of care of it those seals should be like new!

I would change the gasket, torque the cover bolts properly and it should be fine.

You will need to pull the harmonic-balancer and the stator to get that cover off.

The engine is not as bad as it reputation. I have a 22ft boat with a dry weight of 3500LB that little 4 banger will get me to 40mph. It also has pulled what ever i put on a rope behind it out of the water...wakeboards, muti tubers, skie. It a great engine when well taken care of.

 

[Trimitup]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

Good News everyone!!

I just spoke to the previous owner to dig a little deeper on the leak around the gasket on my engine.

Turns out he just had the seals done last year in a local marine shop! The leak is just a gasket problem!

I won't be ripping any engines apart after all!

470's Forever!!


Signed,
Save by Newbie-Luck and Blissful Ignorance!


Don't let fear of injury and common sense stop you!!

 

[solar7647]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

Good News everyone!!

I just spoke to the previous owner to dig a little deeper on the leak around the gasket on my engine.

Turns out he just had the seals done last year in a local marine shop! The leak is just a gasket problem!

I won't be ripping any engines apart after all!

470's Forever!!


Signed,
Save by Newbie-Luck and Blissful Ignorance!


Don't let fear of injury and common sense stop you!!

You still need to ripp some engine parts off. You can not pull that cover off to fix the gasket with the Balencer and stator on. As you can see in the photo the cover for the circulation pump extends behine the stator, there is a bolts there you must get to.

Still better then what it would take to change a seal though.

Hate to say this but told you so!

 

[sinkher]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

If he has an 1987 he should not have a stator. It took me 15 mins. to replace my gasket.

 

[achris]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

If he has an 1987 he should not have a stator. It took me 15 mins. to replace my gasket.

Sounds like you have an aftermarket alternator, with a drive belt. That is NOT factory... If his is still factory, then he'll have a stator...

Chris...........

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

If he has an 1987 he should not have a stator. It took me 15 mins. to replace my gasket.

I have an '89 and still have the stator, don't know how much longer it will last, and when it goes... it's gone for good!!

 

[Trimitup]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

I do have a stator. It's still factory. I was looking at it though, and 15 mins may not be too over-stated. The longest/hardest part is draining the coolant. That is, if you have a harmonic balancer puller (which I do - Princess Auto Rules!). Now where do I buy a new gasket or should I just go ahead and make one?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Whoops. I accidently bought a Mercruiser 165.

Local Mercruiser dealer or here http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...88/35.png&inbr=908&bnbr=170&bdesc=FRONT+COVER yeah I know, aint nutttin cheap on a Mercruiser Might want to see if you can save the old one.