Pouring concrete pads?

[fishrdan]

I'm reworking the front yard and need to pour 2 small concrete pads next to the driveway. The first pad is 2'x18' and the other is 2.25'x22'. I've done some research and it doesn't seem too terribly difficult, just back breaking work.

I'm planning to use premixed concrete (Quikrete 1101) and pouring 4" thick pads with expansion joints every 8', like the existing driveway. Couple of questions:

- Do I need to use reinforcement, 6x6 wire mesh or rebar? (I think so)
- Should I add additional cement to the Quikrete, say 5# per 90# bag? (I've heard Quikrete has the minimum amount of cement, IE: it could use more cement)
- I'm going to use 1/2" asphalt expansion joints where the new pads butt up against the existing driveway and sidewalk, they are needed,,, correct?
- Am I crazy thinking I can mix 18-25 90# bags of concrete in a wheelbarrow without problems, should I look into renting a cement mixer, size? (I won't be the only one mixing and doing 1 pad a day)
- How many 90# bags of cement can I mix in a 6 cuft wheelbarrow or 6 cuft cement mixer? (I'm thinking 1)

BTW, I was thinking of having a ready-mix truck deliver it until I spoke top one of my neighbors. He said it was $300-400 to have a short load delivered...


Thanks,
fishrdan

 

[slasmith1]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

with that much you will probably come out ahead in both time and money if you just set all your forms and have it delivered in one pour. The rebar is a bit much for most driveways but it depends how much weight will be on it and how fast you will drive over it. Even when I do a job myself I always factor in my percieved value of my time versus what someone would charge me to do the job.

 

[ThumbPkr]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

Another consideration is the weight of the concrete mixer on your driveway.
If you can use wheelbarrows and lay down plywood to protect from spillage that might be an option.
We used to allow 5 minutes a cy for unloading the truck,anything over that was calculated at about $60.00 an hour added to the total price.Discuss that with the concrete provider ahead of time.Another option would be to order enough concrete to avoid the minimum load charge by coordinating with neighbors to do other projects at the same time and that might also provide additional help in the process.You can buy concrete with with glass fiber in it these days to eliminate the need for rebar.Ron G

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

I'm planning to use premixed concrete (Quikrete 1101) and pouring 4" thick pads with expansion joints every 8', like the existing driveway. Couple of questions:

- Do I need to use reinforcement, 6x6 wire mesh or rebar? (I think so)
- Should I add additional cement to the Quikrete, say 5# per 90# bag? (I've heard Quikrete has the minimum amount of cement, IE: it could use more cement)
- I'm going to use 1/2" asphalt expansion joints where the new pads butt up against the existing driveway and sidewalk, they are needed,,, correct?
- Am I crazy thinking I can mix 18-25 90# bags of concrete in a wheelbarrow without problems, should I look into renting a cement mixer, size? (I won't be the only one mixing and doing 1 pad a day)
- How many 90# bags of cement can I mix in a 6 cuft wheelbarrow or 6 cuft cement mixer? (I'm thinking 1)

Reinforcement should not be needed but never hurts...unless you are in a freeze thaw area and the metal can rust and cause some issues. Just make sure that you have really prepped the supporting substrate well.

Buy sand, 1/2"-3/4" gravel, and portland cement and mix it yourself. Cheaper and you'll get a better product. Use 1 part cement, 3 parts sand, 5 parts gravel. Get some containers the right size to help you measure quickly once you get going.

A mixer would make your life easier, but you can do it in a wheelbarrow for sure. Most wheelbarrows get a bit top heavy if you overfill....about 1/3-1/2 full is the limit. You'll be feeling it the next day....

BTW, I was thinking of having a ready-mix truck deliver it until I spoke top one of my neighbors. He said it was $300-400 to have a short load delivered...

Don't talk to your neighbour, call them yourself.....call a few of them. One of them may have something going on in your area and you might get a break on cost.
You only need ~ one yard which is not that much.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

Well maybe I live on the side of overkill........

Compacted gravel base of at least 4"........ 6" wire mesh...... forms and have it delivered. It will be one "mix" and there will be no variables. The expense will be worth your time and effort to do it right...... Your back will thank you

Being an engineer........ concrete is placed and tea is poured!

 

[ENSIGN]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

Been there done that {NEVER AGAIN}

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

You may want to check around for a mini concrete truck.There are a few places in my area that have them.I wish i could remember the company but they deliver 2 yards or less and have the small trucks designed for such jobs.

I mixed about 50 bags in a wheel barrow to do the foundation of my building...
Those 80 pound bags don't go very far and i was sore for days!
Looking back on it i will call a truck next time.

 

[dwco5051]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

If my math is correct you will need about 45-50 80# bags of quickcrete.

See the following for calculation

http://www.sakrete.com/projects/calculators.aspx

If you use the Quickcrete Pro 5000 mix for 5000 psi concrete for added strength it is about 5 or 6 bucks an 80# bag. How much is your time and labor worth? Buying the ready mix is not such a bad deal if you use the extra help to help pour and finish and do the whole job at one time.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

No way i woud do that by hand. Been there done that for something smaller.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

Been there, done that. Never again. Now I call a small local company that has 1 and 2 yd trucks. 135/ yd- delivered!!!!! No trip charge, no overage charge either.

Another place has a small concrete plant and trailers to haul up to a yd at a time. 75/ yd., but you get some settling of the aggregate on the trip to the site. Not as handy....

Use road mesh or rebar, unless you are adding fibers....


Have fun either way.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

You are getting some good info here Dan.
Couple of questions:
-Are these pads...sidewalks for walking and people only? or are they driveway extensions for vehicles or rv parking?
-Are you thinking of a specific top surface finish? (ie: straight 'swept' concrete, or exposed washed pebble look or?)
Note:
-If this is a 'people' only sidewalk....3" is plenty thick enough...in spades. (rebar optional in my opinion...although ask the local concrete company about the 'pour in' rebar glass....very cool, and a lot less work)
-If it is an actual 'driveway'...then 4" is the target..with rebar.
BP

 

[25-06shooter]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

On a broomed finish sidewalk most people don't like the finish of concrete with fiber in it. It will have "hair" after broomed. It will wear away with use, but until then it will look funny. Also, if you try to broom it too wet it will clog up your broom and make a very course and uneven finish.

You have 85.5 sq. feet of walk. 1 yard of concrete will cover 81 square feet 4" thick. If it is for foot traffic you can squeeze by, if vehicle traffic you will need to get 1 1/4 yards. If it is for anything bigger than a car I would pour it 6" thick which would take 1 3/4 yards.

Reguardless of which one it is I would use wire mesh in the concrete lifted up to the center when you pour. Concrete is going to crack, you just have to make it crack where you want it to. You will need the expansion joint where it butts a hard surface, but not necessarily every 8 feet, unless you just want it to match. I would have a tooled or sawed joint in it every 4 feet at least 1/4 of the thickness of the concrete. You will need to make sure your joints are the thinnest place in the walk so it will crack in the joint and won't be seen. A walk that narrow will crack across it very easily. Run your wire through the sawed or tooled joints so it won't seperate vertically.

By your measurements 4" thick is 28.2 cubic feet. If I remember correctly, an 80# bag of quickcrete is .33 cubic feet, so you will need 85 1/2 bags of mix. Quite a lot to hand mix and by the time you have it all down the first bags will be set too hard to work.

I helped mixed 50 bags with a mixer before and dumped it straight into a footing for a foot bridge across a pond. It took 3 of us several hours to mix. Not much fun.

Hope this helped.

Nate

 

[dwco5051]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

On a broomed finish sidewalk most people don't like the finish of concrete with fiber in it. It will have "hair" after broomed. It will wear away with use, but until then it will look funny. Also, if you try to broom it too wet it will clog up your broom and make a very course and uneven finish.

You have 85.5 sq. feet of walk. 1 yard of concrete will cover 81 square feet 4" thick. If it is for foot traffic you can squeeze by, if vehicle traffic you will need to get 1 1/4 yards. If it is for anything bigger than a car I would pour it 6" thick which would take 1 3/4 yards.

Reguardless of which one it is I would use wire mesh in the concrete lifted up to the center when you pour. Concrete is going to crack, you just have to make it crack where you want it to. You will need the expansion joint where it butts a hard surface, but not necessarily every 8 feet, unless you just want it to match. I would have a tooled or sawed joint in it every 4 feet at least 1/4 of the thickness of the concrete. You will need to make sure your joints are the thinnest place in the walk so it will crack in the joint and won't be seen. A walk that narrow will crack across it very easily. Run your wire through the sawed or tooled joints so it won't seperate vertically.

By your measurements 4" thick is 28.2 cubic feet. If I remember correctly, an 80# bag of quickcrete is .33 cubic feet, so you will need 85 1/2 bags of mix. Quite a lot to hand mix and by the time you have it all down the first bags will be set too hard to work.

I helped mixed 50 bags with a mixer before and dumped it straight into a footing for a foot bridge across a pond. It took 3 of us several hours to mix. Not much fun.

Hope this helped.

Nate

40# bags are 1/3 cubic foot, 80# 2/3. Either way still a lot of concrete to mix by hand

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

You can also figure out where your expansion joints will be and pour every other pad one day using a bulkhead , and pour the others a day or more later. use felt or cedar or plastic strips or 1/4" ply wood for your joint after removing your 2x4 bulkhead. defiantly use mesh or rebar. Before you broom it , bullfloat it and trowel it once. This will bring the fine aggregate to the surface with the cream (cement) and make a better longer lasting finish. Have fun.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

Thanks for the suggestions guys (place/pour you got me there Bob )

You have talked me out of trying to wheel barrow mix it. Last weekend I spend 2 1/2 days digging, trenching, planting,,, surprisingly I'm not sore this week...

The pads are extensions off the driveway for vehicles. The boat off to 1 side, truck in the middle and car off to the other side. It gets my car off the street which I've been meaning to do for years.

I'm not sure on the finish yet. The old concrete is pretty smooth (not like a baby's butt) but I don't think I'm going to brush it. I don't know, I'll have to go look at a couple brushed pads that were poured in my neighborhood and see what I think. Brushing would be easier though...

My neighbor is full of **it. I just called, and the first ready mix place I talked to said it's $65/yd, $7 for fiber, $90 short load fee and 10 enviro fee,,, $172 . Ummm yeah,,, I'm not mixing it myself for that price! Heck, I'm thinking of going a bit bigger now since adding more concrete will be minimal.

Looks like I'll have another fun filled weekend getting everything prepped for "P" day,,,

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

Thanks for the suggestions guys (place/pour you got me there Bob )

You have talked me out of trying to wheel barrow mix it. Last weekend I spend 2 1/2 days digging, trenching, planting,,, surprisingly I'm not sore this week...

The pads are extensions off the driveway for vehicles. The boat off to 1 side, truck in the middle and car off to the other side. It gets my car off the street which I've been meaning to do for years.

I'm not sure on the finish yet. The old concrete is pretty smooth (not like a baby's butt) but I don't think I'm going to brush it. I don't know, I'll have to go look at a couple brushed pads that were poured in my neighborhood and see what I think. Brushing would be easier though...

My neighbor is full of **it. I just called, and the first ready mix place I talked to said it's $65/yd, $7 for fiber, $90 short load fee and 10 enviro fee,,, $172 . Ummm yeah,,, I'm not mixing it myself for that price! Heck, I'm thinking of going a bit bigger now since adding more concrete will be minimal.

Looks like I'll have another fun filled weekend getting everything prepped for "P" day,,,

Sounds like you've got a plan...Dan.
Here is some other stuff to consider:
-Make sure you have at least 2 wheel barrows....and ideally one of them is a heavy duty job and check the air pressure in the tires early in the day. Cement puts a smokin' load on a standard wheel barrow and will make short work of a 'garden' wheel barrow.
-Don't try to trowel with tile trowels...get the right trowels and ideally a few of them.
-Make sure you have a couple of friends helping you...this will make a huge difference. (they might have wheel barrows...)
-Try to find a couple of places on your property where you could use a little extra cement or make a couple of cheap square or round forms. There is always a little extra after the forms are full and it often or usually has to be left on site which makes it your responsibility to find a place for it.
(maybe some extra steps around the back? or some round stepping stones? or post holes or??)
-Remember, as previously mentioned the quoted delivery price usually includes a set and certain amount of time for delivery thought to be reasonable...so the faster you unload the truck the less likely you will be charged extra wait time. If something breaks (forms, wheel barrow, etc) the clock will be ticking on the bill.
Good Luck and keep us posted!!
BP

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

Good point BP, transporting the cement from the truck to the pads. I was thinking they could just back up to my driveway and dump it directly into the forms, with a couple moves of the truck. Heck, I'd even tip the driver nicely if I didn't have to wheel barrow the cement, all of the forms have direct access to the street and driveway. I don't know if they are leery of backing up into a driveway though, the heavy truck could crack the existing driveway I guess?

You bring up another good point too, what to do with the excess of the load. I actually thought that was what the $10 environmental fee was for, disposing of the leftovers. Maybe not?

Looks like I need to call the ready mix company and ask what their procedures are, make sure I know what they do and what I'm responsible for.

 

[blairjbyrd]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

I would not mix the concrete by hand. You will feel it for sure. I would call a crete company see how much it would be to deliver. You will spend 3 quarters of your time mixing. That is not fun.

 

[ThumbPkr]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

A contractors wheelbarrow will move one cubic yard in 8 trips to the truck.
As mentioned before have at least two wheelbarrows with the tires inflated to the maximum pressure for security in case one blows a tire etc,make sure that the axle is greased and dumping a wheelbarrow loaded with heavy concrete is an art mastered with a lot of practice so if you don't want concrete spilled on the adjacent area plan on covering it with plywood,tar paper or something.You really should cover the concrete after it has been poured and finished to keep it from setting too fast as that can produce shrinkage cracks as well as reducing the design strength of the finished product.
The professionals use burlap and keep it wet for 24 hours or so to cure slowly for maximum strength.That may be overkill but it is a consideration.Ron G

 

[Stachi]

Re: Pouring concrete pads?

The most important thing you will need, other than having it delivered , proper tools and equipment,and extra hands .... is someone onsight with experience in concrete finishing....only experience will tell you when to start the finishing process....(what to do and when ). You might consider hiring a concrete worker just to guide you thru the process....have him check your forms and sight prep the day before. Keeps your eyes open for a concrete contractor at work , and stop and talk with one of the crew...its easy side $ for the crew member, and a good insurance policy for a well done job. Just my 2 cents...


don't forget the beer !