Cold water launch question

[freeisforme]

First off, I'm not new to boating, I've been at it for years.
However, yesterday, I had my first experience with a larger boat launch on a roller trailer.
The boat weighs about 4150 as trailered, the trailer is a tandem axle matched to the task. The winch is a two speed manual dual gear, ratchet winch with about 30' of cable. It was the heaviest manual I could find. The boat is 23' long.

Needless to say the water was fridgid today, getting wet was not an option.
I backed in to the point where the water was just about halfway to the hubs, and the stern just getting wet. Any further and I knew I'd have real issues getting to the boat to unhook the winch cable. It's a roller trailer, so it has to stay winched on till it's in the water or else dump it on the ramp, the boat was unstrapped, plugs in place, no problems there. I tied a 25' length of rope to the bow cleat to guide it to the coutesy dock once afloat.
The problem at had became how to disconnect the boat once it rolled off the trailer into the water. The boat cannot come close enough to shore to unhook, the trailer had no walking area to get out to the boat on, and too much of the trailer is underwater anyhow. The bow hook is missing it's safety clip, but it wouldn't let go of the bow eye for anything by just jiggling the cable around, which was just about at the end of it's travel with the boat in the water. I finally got the boat unhooked and to the dock, where I proceeded to take it for a good test run. Getting hooked back up was just as bad.

My question is, how are you supposed to go about this?
I couldn't unhook prior to backing down the ramp, the cable is as long as it can be on an already rather large winch, and the free hanging hook is probably the easiest to jossel loose. Getting the boat back on was even worse as I had to back in even farther to get the boat up over the first set of rollers, this put the bow eye about 12' out of reach.
There is also no way to reach the bow eye from in the boat, it's over 30" down from the tip of the bow and there's a huge bow flare.

It also needs all of it's gearing to haul that boat up that trailer on the ramp.

If this was on a bunk trailer, it would be easy, but do most do on with a heavy boat like this on a roller trailer?
I'm not going through this again until I have a better plan.
If it was warm, I'd consider getting wet, but the ramp is slick and a fall would be likely.

What would work would be a winch that let go of it's cable or strap, that way I could walk the boat to the trailer with the strap as a lead, connect to the winch, and crank it up the rollers. The way it is now, the cable is bolted to the pulley.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Cold water launch question

Well, cold is relative, but....How about a pair of chest waders so it does not matter if you are in the water? Or is there something else going on that we do not know?
The waders with the soft soles marketed to the flyfishermen have better traction for you fall worries....

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Cold water launch question

Bunks would be better for launching only because you could unhook before backing down the ramp. But then you would be deeper in when retrieving the boat in order to winch it back on.

Where your launching there is not a walking dock next to the ramp so you could pull the bow closer?

But I would add a second hook to the cable end. Just a simple homemade hook that is bent at 90 degrees versus a hooked hook. Before backing to far down ramp, switch the hooks and put tension on it.
Then when your down as far as you want to go on the ramp you can use a broom handle, etc. to push the hook out of the bow eye. Or just wiggling the cable from the winch post will dislodge it a whole lot easier than a hooked hook when tension is off.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Cold water launch question

Ayuh,... My boat is similar, in that it's a big boat, on a roller trailer...
What I do is,....
Rig the boat for launch, back in til the winch stand is At the waterline,...
Get out, Unhook the winch strap,+ hand the bowline to an assistant, or tie it to a dock cleat,..
Then back in a few more feet to float the boat Off the wagon...

For Retrieval,...
I back the trailer in Deeper, motor up to it so the boweye is within a foot or 2 from the winch,...
With it idling in forward, I walk up to the bow, lay down, reach over,+ Hook the winch strap,...
Go back shut the motor off, trim up,+ go pull it up outa the water til the winch is again at the waterline, then walk back,+ winch it home,...
Pull out, secure the boat,+ call it a Day...

 

[bj2455]

Re: Cold water launch question

This is a problem lots of us northern boaters have to face both in the spring and the late fall.

I have a 24' Searay on a roller trailer and faced the same issues. There is a solution to the problem however.

A new product on the market called a SNAPPER will allow you to launch and retrieve your boat by a remote control device. You never have to have an unsecured boat on the trailer until you are ready. I've used it for a year now and NEVER have to get into the water. There was no way to unhook or reattach the winch strap leaning over the bow of the boat but this eliminates that completely. I've attached a couple pics of the setup but feel free to private IM me and I'll send more info if interested.

Bill

 

[wingmastr23]

Re: Cold water launch question

Ayuh,... My boat is similar, in that it's a big boat, on a roller trailer...
What I do is,....
Rig the boat for launch, back in til the winch stand is At the waterline,...
Get out, Unhook the winch strap,+ hand the bowline to an assistant, or tie it to a dock cleat,..
Then back in a few more feet to float the boat Off the wagon...

For Retrieval,...
I back the trailer in Deeper, motor up to it so the boweye is within a foot or 2 from the winch,...
With it idling in forward, I walk up to the bow, lay down, reach over,+ Hook the winch strap,...
Go back shut the motor off, trim up,+ go pull it up outa the water til the winch is again at the waterline, then walk back,+ winch it home,...
Pull out, secure the boat,+ call it a Day...

Bingo! This is how we have done it for years.....even in warm water.

 

[robert graham]

Re: Cold water launch question

I keep a pair of 15" slip-on rubber boots in the trunk just so I can walk out on the trailer to unhook that bow winch line without getting wet. Works great and boots about $20 at Walmart, great traction also so you don't slip and bust butt! Good Luck!

 

[dingbat]

Re: Cold water launch question

Take your bow rope and wrap it around the winch stand a couple of times. Take out as much slack as you can between the boat and the winch stand.

Back the trailer down in the water and back off the winch until the rope is holding the boat on the trailer. On mine, I have to back the winch off maybe 3feet. Unhook the cable and slowly unwrap the rope off the winch stand to allow the boat to roll off the trailer.

Coming back in I back the trailer in as far as it will go yet allow me to get on the tongue and walk out to the winch. At this point the bow is maybe 5-6' from the winch stand with the tide out, closer if the tide is in. It's pretty easy to walk down the frame and hook the cable to the bow. My boat is pushing #6K when loaded with fuel so I cheat. I push a botton and let the winch do the work.

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: Cold water launch question

Ayuh,... My boat is similar, in that it's a big boat, on a roller trailer...
What I do is,....
Rig the boat for launch, back in til the winch stand is At the waterline,...
Get out, Unhook the winch strap,+ hand the bowline to an assistant, or tie it to a dock cleat,..
Then back in a few more feet to float the boat Off the wagon...

For Retrieval,...
I back the trailer in Deeper, motor up to it so the boweye is within a foot or 2 from the winch,...
With it idling in forward, I walk up to the bow, lay down, reach over,+ Hook the winch strap,...
Go back shut the motor off, trim up,+ go pull it up outa the water til the winch is again at the waterline, then walk back,+ winch it home,...
Pull out, secure the boat,+ call it a Day...

Ditto. But I do have a set of hip waders in the back of the truck in case I need them.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Cold water launch question

I back in right next to the dock.... I step in the boat and start the engine and while still tilted pretty high I slip it in forward gear (only at idle).... then I climb out and with bow line in hand (just in case engine dies I unhook the winch. the boat usually rolls back about a foot. Then I walk down the dock and get in. Slip it in neutral and it rolls back and off the trailer

To load I trim up all the way and tilt a little higher and drive it onto the trailer at just over idle and then back down to idle. Then I get out (again with the bow line in hand and walk up to the front. Hook up the winch. Crank it up a few inches and go back and kill the engine.

With a helper it's even easier.

When it's warm I get wet feet up to the ankles.... when it's cold I wear boots

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Cold water launch question

He said he can't reach the bow eye from in the boat, and if the water is as cold as it is here, then getting in the water, on a slick ramp is certainly not a good idea, especially if launching by yourself.

I'm also not a big fan of completely submerging a roller trailer, not only because it's not a good idea as far as corrosion, but a larger boat can be pretty tough to center up if its not rolled all the way on from the start. He would most likely need some sort of guide posts to make this work right every time.

Those self latching bow stops don't work, its just to hard to get everything lined up just right every time. I had a bass boat years ago with one, it came with the boat, it only lasted two weeks before I tossed it in favor a normal bow stop and bow eye.

I did see one winch once that used an open pulley set up, it allowed the lead rope to be hand wrapped and then powered on, but it may well have been home made or an adaptation of an old windlass. I do seem to recall seeing a detachable winch strap of some sorts in which the strap stayed with the boat and you simply reconnected it to the winch when you returned. I did a quick search though and couldn't find it.

I'm with the OP, I don't care to get wet when launching and retrieving my boat. If I wanted to get wet, I'd just go swimming, not boating.

Maybe another option would be a stick of some sort that could grab or unhook the bow eye? I understand what he means by not being able to reach the bow eye from in the boat, my Starcraft Starchief also has no way to get to the bow of the boat. (Maybe if I was 50 lbs or so, but forget getting my 300lb self through that forward hatch, or walking on the deck or leaning on the bow rail for that matter).

At least where I launch I have a pretty decent dock that lets me reach the bow eye, and I have an extra long winch strap. Luckily that boat is light. I never back in further than to maybe just wet the back of the fender edge when loading, and only up to the point where the hubs are just out of the water to launch. On that boat, I wrap the bow lead rope around the winch post, securing it to itself loosely when backing in, that way I can release the winch strap easily, but then again, I can darn near pull my boat up the trailer by hand when retrieving it. I'm not sure I'd try that on a steep ramp with a 4,000+ pound boat.
If my boat weighed that much, I'd probably not use the ramp I use now.

 

[Triton II]

Re: Cold water launch question

Walkways are your friend! Easy to retrofit using U-bolts.

 

[freeisforme]

Re: Cold water launch question

My trailer has a walkway, but even if I walk out to the farthest point that's still out of the water, I can't reach the boat or bow eye. The bow eye is about 28" back on the bow, and well under the flare of the hull. There's no way to get at it from in the boat. It's just out of reach. Waders are out since the ramp is so slick, I'd almost certainly fall in and slide down the ramp. Its hard enough to walk around behind the truck.
I may try tying the bow rope to the winch post but I'm leery about letting all that weight hang on a rope while backing in. Besides, that don't help in getting it back on the trailer. I like the stick idea but I've yet to find one that works well I have one from Bass Pro, the kind that holds the hook but its hard to hold at that distance. I'm thinking of making a long pole with an L shaped hook on the end that I can use to hook and unhook the boat. The ramp is pretty steep, or at least steep enough that it's hard to stand up on, in the summer its slimy, the other day it was icy as well.

Part of the problem is that the boat doesn't cooperate very well when pulled and pushed around by hand, if I back in too deep, there's no way to center the boat. I could add a pair of guide ons but they'd have to be pretty stout to handle the weight on windy days. The trailer does have side bunks, but thier useless, they never touch the boat and if they do, they're just in the way. If I back in far enough for them to actually guide the boat on, the boat starts up crooked and ends up settling down against one or the other side bunk. All they really do is protect the fenders. Once the boat is hooked, it comes right up dead center and I quickly hook the safety chain and pull up the ramp. The best part is that this thing launches and loads without ever wetting the hubs, which is great, but even still the rear of the trailer is still too far out over the water, and deep enough water that I'd have to be in up to my waist or better to get to the bow eye. I watched another guy load his boat, which was almost the same size, he had a helper driving the truck and hooking the boat, he powered up the trailer hard and his buddy stood on the trailer and snagged the bow eye with the cable, I was waiting for his buddy to get knocked into the water or run over.

I don't think I'd want to power on the trailer, this boat would most likely run right up it, and if you weren't aligned, maybe miss the bow stop. (I've seen that trick before, a guy powered up a roller trailer, in too deep and some how ended up with his boat between the right fender and bow stop sideways).

I'm thinking of going to a larger winch and maybe welding a hook or stud to the winch spool hub, and a loop on the end of the cable or strap. This way I could let the strap go off the winch once in the water, and just pull it onboard once afloat. I could then lead the boat to the trailer, hook the winch spool again, and wind it back on. Picture a Penn reel with it's little stud that some use to connect the line too, only stronger. If I used a D ring, or plate, it would key lock onto the stud and lock in place. I don't rely on the winch to hold the boat on the trailer, I have a turnbuckle for that, so it should work?
It sure would beat getting wet or trying to walk the trailer plank and hook and unhook the bow strap with a stick.

 

[Triton II]

Re: Cold water launch question

I'm thinking of going to a larger winch and maybe welding a hook or stud to the winch spool hub, and a loop on the end of the cable or strap. This way I could let the strap go off the winch once in the water, and just pull it onboard once afloat. I could then lead the boat to the trailer, hook the winch spool again, and wind it back on. Picture a Penn reel with it's little stud that some use to connect the line too, only stronger. If I used a D ring, or plate, it would key lock onto the stud and lock in place. I don't rely on the winch to hold the boat on the trailer, I have a turnbuckle for that, so it should work?
It sure would beat getting wet or trying to walk the trailer plank and hook and unhook the bow strap with a stick.

Sounds like a good plan...

 

[dingbat]

Re: Cold water launch question

I may try tying the bow rope to the winch post but I'm leery about letting all that weight hang on a rope while backing in.

The rope holds no weight until the back of the boat is floating and you back the winch off to transfer the weight from the winch to the rope.

In the picture below the horizontal black line represents the typical water line when launching and loading. The shore line is usually right about where the tongue jack is.

The vertical line represents the location of the bow at the start of retrieval. There is more than enough frame above the water to walk out, and around, the bow to attach the winch cable.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Cold water launch question

Try hip or chest waders with ice cleats strapped to the boots. You might look funny but you won't slip no matter how slimy or icy that ramp is.

 

[freeisforme]

Re: Cold water launch question

The rope holds no weight until the back of the boat is floating and you back the winch off to transfer the weight from the winch to the rope.

In the picture below the horizontal black line represents the typical water line when launching and loading. The shore line is usually right about where the tongue jack is.

The vertical line represents the location of the bow at the start of retrieval. There is more than enough frame above the water to walk out, and around, the bow to attach the winch cable.

Your right on the rope, I wasn't thinking of it like that. But my boat is at the rear of the trailer when I hook up, there's no way it will climb the first set of rollers without the winch. The wheels are halfway submerged, and the back of the truck over the water's edge. I won't back the truck into the drink, especially in saltwater and going in any further would only put me at risk of running off the ramp. The trailer is about 25' from ball to last roller, with the axle set to give it about 600lbs of tongue weight. Any more and there's no way my truck would handle it. Either way, the problem at hand isn't the truck, it's how to get easily on and off the trailer without getting wet. I've looked for waders, so far no luck finding any that fit, finding foot size 15 in a wader that's not too long or one with some sort of traction is about impossible. I do have a pair of ice boots but they're only calf high. They have bonded metal bits on the bottom.
The walking plank on my trailer goes from about 20" ahead of the winch stand to the rear crossmember, but when I'm loading, the ramp is under water from just past midway to the last crossmember. This is well out of reach of the bow eye. I could maybe touch the bow top but not the bow eye.
There is a dock but it's not along the ramp, the dock don't start till way out and it turns into deeper water. There's a tall seawall between me and the boat at the actual ramp. There are also signs all around about not going in the water there, warning of a sudden drop at the edges of the ramp. I watched one guy run off the ramp with a much smaller trailer last summer, he was trying to float a 16' boat off at low tide, he ended up ripping one end of his axle off. The tire, hub, and spindle assembly just floated away as the trailer caught the edge of the ramp. They say it's getting worse because so many power load their boats there. It's eroding away the dirt and gravel at the edges of the concrete.
I may try another ramp but this one was always the easiest with my smaller boat, plus it's close to where we fish. I think the idea of being able to leave the bow strap attached is the ticket, that way all I need to do is get the boat behind the trailer which I can do with the lead and boat pole. Once behind the trailer all I'd need to do is hook to the winch and crank it in place. No slipping, no getting wet, nothing.
I went to a local tie down manufacturer, they suggested another idea, they have a strap end that's used on heavy trucks, it's sort of a flat J hooked D ring. I could make a false center on the pulley, leaving a hook slot for this clip. This would accomplish two things, it would in effect speed up the winch by increasing spool diameter, and also give me a place to hook to. They already make straps in 30' length with this hook on one end and a clip hook on the other. They also seemed to think that such a thing already exists and are checking on it for me. It's just a matter of whether or not it's suitable for marine use as well.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Cold water launch question

I have seen a boat pole designed to hold your bow hook and reach out to the eye somewhere.... might check that

 

[The_Kid]

Re: Cold water launch question

I've looked for waders, so far no luck finding any that fit, finding foot size 15 in a wader that's not too long or one with some sort of traction is about impossible. I do have a pair of ice boots but they're only calf high. They have bonded metal bits on the bottom.

Here's a pair of size 15 hip waders. http://www.kodiakoutback.com/detail.aspx?ID=525 If you're worried about slipping add these, http://www.fishusa.com/HT-Enterprises-Sure-Grip-Safety-Treads_p.html or use these. http://www.fishingtackleunlimited.com/p/FTU/c-/SI-HardBiteBootStuds.html

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Cold water launch question

You need to shop around for the various strap type winches or wire rope winches.
That truck load holdown strap uses a rachet (winch) that has a slot for the strap in the spool hub.
You only need a winch that has the same. A slot if using strap or a hole if using wire rope in the hub of the winch. No fasteners or hooks or clamps needed.
Insert strap or rope into slot or hole in hub and start winding. Three or four revolutions of the spool and whatever or however the end is secured is not being utilized anyways.