Used boat market is sucking wind.

[superpop]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

Warning, this message may offend some.

If you cannot afford to buy a boat or any other toy with cash, you have no business buying it. It is silly and reckless to finance something that depreciates as fast as a boat or any other recreational vehicle. And no it is not your god given right to obtain credit, we are in the mess we are in now because to many lenders and too many borrowers abused the system.

That concludes this rant.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

What I'm seeing as far as used boats and prices here is that many boaters are looking to downsize. Last year they were all looking to go from a 25' to an 10' boat, this year they want small aluminum boats. Large boats, larger outboards, and anything newer or anything that might need to be financed is out. (I had bought several last fall for cheap with plans to do some minor cosmetic repairs and to resell them. Here I am in Jan. and all are gone already as they were found, for as much as I'd have listed them for all fixed up. Now I know we're not talking high dollar boats, but the money right now is in the smaller boats or anything they can afford to buy for cash, that amount varies depending on the buyers financial situation in the current economy.

I have had no problems selling smaller boats that I bought at the end of last year for good money, but I might as well scrap anything larger than about 16'. I get constant offers of trades for larger boats, some pretty new, but they don't sell. Last year around this time guys with larger bay boats were looking to step down to a smaller skiff, this year even the heavier skiff is out. A lot of the buyers I've found have sold their trucks and aren't able to tow a bigger boat, many simply let go of their truck since it was a second vehicle, and now there's just no money for it. The truck went before the boat in most cases.
I've been sticking to only aluminum boats now, no more glass and nothing over about 1,000 lbs or so. I also see far more cars launching boats at the ramp, gone are the full size pickups.

I do agree that most fishermen will not upgrade, but they will downgrade if they can save some money. I've seen that with fishing tackle as well.

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

One can only use so many muscle cars - unless it's a must have model like a 1st generation Vette or a '67 Chevelle SS convertible. The Canadian dollar is again almost at par with the US dollar. If and when it again goes above the US dollar, interest probably will return in buying cars from the US. I wonder how Barrett Jackson will do this year? That will tell us something about the economy.

Up here, interest in buying new pickups and SUVs was real low a year or two ago with the high fuel prices. Now that fuel is down, vehicles are up in price a lot. Three year old diesel pickups I'm looking at are going for $35,000 or so.

If that's true about the pickups, I can get them all day long here for $18,000...very nice, rust free...wanna make some extra play money???

Barrett Jackson was way off last year in the numbers they were seeing, even though their numbers were still way high compared to the real world market. I'm sure this year will be the same...unfortunately.

 

[leer94]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

I thought used boat prices were way off scale as well.

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

Warning, this message may offend some.

If you cannot afford to buy a boat or any other toy with cash, you have no business buying it. It is silly and reckless to finance something that depreciates as fast as a boat or any other recreational vehicle. And no it is not your god given right to obtain credit, we are in the mess we are in now because to many lenders and too many borrowers abused the system.

That concludes this rant.

I agree 100%...BUT, if everyone was willing to wait until they had the money, our economy would crash and burn. Everything I have now is paid for because in the late 90's we lost everything due to high finance living, the crash after 911 killed us. From 02'-07' we did well, this time, rather than financing everything, I waited. Now everything we have is paid for...even paid for the house. You should have been there for the conversation with the real estate agent! They were pushing us toward much bigger homes and interest only loans...had all the spread sheets about how we could live there a few years and flip it to make a killing...HA! Who's smiling now?!?!?

 

[eastont]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

If you can show up to work everyday and communicate reasonably well, you can get a job that pays ok. (at least $15 an hour) If you have any business sense you can work as much as you can take on.

That might be true in your neck of the woods Paul, but come to Ontario. Our manufacturing has been devastated. From the car makers to widgets, employment is in the tank. Probably more to do with the dollar being at almost par, but that is a direct result of the US economy.

Where I live, city of 22,000, there has been 4 plant shutdowns and more still to come. The employment ads in today's newspaper have 3 listings. Hershey and Stanley tools shut down there operations in a city 1/2 hour away, putting 30% of their workforce on the street.
The only jobs available do not pay anywhere need $15 an hour.....more like minimum to $10.



Okay I'm finished ranting.

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

That might be true in your neck of the woods Paul, but come to Ontario. Our manufacturing has been devastated. From the car makers to widgets, employment is in the tank. Probably more to do with the dollar being at almost par, but that is a direct result of the US economy.

Where I live, city of 22,000, there has been 4 plant shutdowns and more still to come. The employment ads in today's newspaper have 3 listings. Hershey and Stanley tools shut down there operations in a city 1/2 hour away, putting 30% of their workforce on the street.
The only jobs available do not pay anywhere need $15 an hour.....more like minimum to $10.



Okay I'm finished ranting.

hence my skepticism about 3 year old trucks selling for 35K in Canada...you can buy brand new ones here for that!

I think much of this is just a massive correction from the way inflated economy and prices of the past 10 years. I'm going to the Atlanta boat show today. I'm sure I'll be laughing at the prices the manufacturers are asking...But, I like seeing what my boat will look like 10-20 years from now after someone else pays all the crazy prices and takes the big hit on depreciation.

 

[paulspaddle]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

hence my skepticism about 3 year old trucks selling for 35K in Canada...you can buy brand new ones here for that!

I think much of this is just a massive correction from the way inflated economy and prices of the past 10 years. I'm going to the Atlanta boat show today. I'm sure I'll be laughing at the prices the manufacturers are asking...But, I like seeing what my boat will look like 10-20 years from now after someone else pays all the crazy prices and takes the big hit on depreciation.

Well I can't say anything towards $35K for a 3 year old truck, not sure where that came from? Our middle of Canada economy is relatively stable. When the rest of Canada (North America) booms we whine and complain how we aren't booming, but when there is a slump we boast about how 'safe' we are. The biggest factor is our economy isn't reliant on manufacturing export sales to keep it going.

But, lets put this in perspective the population of Manitoba is 1.2 million. Hydro and agriculture is enough to keep a steady base economy. The housing market is good, this keeps all the trades working. When things are booming there are literally only a handful of corporate types making million dollar salary + bonuses. (not including local entrepreneurs and business owners)

The banks are still generous with their lending, but as rates rise as they are predicting, it will be interesting to see what happens.

On that note, I just purchased a different home and redid my mortgage. My mortgage rate was at 3.25%, BUT I'm paying as if the rate was 4.5%. The 1.25% goes directly towards the principle. The reason is the bank said that when rates go up that 1.25% is a buffer so it won't cause people to panic as their net monies left over each month isn't affected right away. Have they learned something?

I say "not entirely".....

With that, I was surprised that a bank will let you hang yourself if you want.
We bought a fixer upper home and I wanted to work on it for a month so I asked if they would approve two mortgages....oh THREE mortgages as we have the cabin.....APPROVED. Now, hold on, I'm finishing up a university degree, we have 1.5 incomes, there is no way we could sustain these three mortgages long term and I joked with the manager as such...."well the numbers say you can". They are nuts! For the record, the other house sold right away, (was confident it would, hence the gamble) and its all good.....but the bank is still nuts.

 

[KeyWestSkipper]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

hence my skepticism about 3 year old trucks selling for 35K in Canada...you can buy brand new ones here for that!

I think much of this is just a massive correction from the way inflated economy and prices of the past 10 years. I'm going to the Atlanta boat show today. I'm sure I'll be laughing at the prices the manufacturers are asking...But, I like seeing what my boat will look like 10-20 years from now after someone else pays all the crazy prices and takes the big hit on depreciation.

Hope you can post some pics or a recap of the show. I went to the Long Beach BS last year, holy smokes was that depressing.

I wonder how successful a a CarMax type used boat dealership would be if executed right. Something like they'd get 1/4 of the selling price for which they'd survey, show and sea trial consignment boats as per a written agreement.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

DINGBAT, dont think you are going to find to many off shore fishing boat in PHOENIX for sale or not for sale. Same for ferraries or porsches in JOHNSTOWN.

And that's my point. Value is determined by how something is perceived and how much someone is willing to pay for it. Although my examples where extreme, they still point out the fact that values vary from one location to the next for a number of reasons.

When you go to look-up used car prices the first thing that pops up is an entry for your zip code so the values are adjusted to reflect the local market. Once inside, NADA breaks the automobiles down even more into categories muscle cars, classics, etc. Why no such thing for a boats? NADA would have you believe that Boat X has the same value in Johnstown as it does in Beverly Hills which is why I place very little value on NADA pricing for boats.

I find it interesting that a number of those complaining about the unrealistic prices are those looking to buy boats for profit. Obviously the shoe will be on the other foot when it comes time to sell the ?over priced? boat.

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

Well I can't say anything towards $35K for a 3 year old truck, not sure where that came from? ....

See post #43...

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

Hope you can post some pics or a recap of the show. I went to the Long Beach BS last year, holy smokes was that depressing.

I wonder how successful a a CarMax type used boat dealership would be if executed right. Something like they'd get 1/4 of the selling price for which they'd survey, show and sea trial consignment boats as per a written agreement.

Well it was depressing to go to the ABS too. Normally, they have the place packed wall to wall with boats. This year there was plenty room to walk around between boats...no go fast boats, no sail boats, no house boats...I heard lots of talk about how difficult things are right now. I walked into Marine Max's display and got mugged by a sales rep...when hew found out I already had a SeaRay he really got serious. Basically, he was at 1/2 price on a new 240DA in about 5 minutes...but still, $50K??? seriously? How bout I wait 15-20 years and get her for $10K cash...maybe less...

I tried to explain that I wasn't serious about buying but he wasn't hearing it...oh well, can't blame a guy for trying...

Signs of the times...

 

[northernmerc]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

If that's true about the pickups, I can get them all day long here for $18,000...very nice, rust free...wanna make some extra play money???

Barrett Jackson was way off last year in the numbers they were seeing, even though their numbers were still way high compared to the real world market. I'm sure this year will be the same...unfortunately.

As my original post indicated, the three year old pickups that are selling for $35,000 in western Canada are diesel models. I know; I've been looking to replace my '04 3/4 ton GMC. Trucks with gas engines go for substantially less.

Trucks and cars are a LOT higher in Canada than in the US, even with the dollar at par. GM (and possibly the other manufacturers) doesn't allow US dealers to sell new vehicles to Canadians. Some of the manufacturers - Dodge for example - would not honor a US warranty in Canada. GM would do so but only once the vehicle had 12,000 miles on it. Nor sure about Ford. Even Toyota pickups are a lot more expensive in Canada than in the US. I guess that protects the Canadian dealers and higher profit margins.

Overall, things are a lot more expensive in Canada. We get a lot of US TV channels up here, and we also travel to the US. So we see your low prices on all kinds of things. Prices like turkey at 29 cents a pound, eggs for a buck or less a dozen, cheap milk, and beer at 50 cents a can seem unbelievable to Canadians. Most brands of Canadian beer in Canada cost $20 or more a dozen, depending on the brand. (Except in Alberta where one can buy a can of cheaper brands for a buck.) Up here marketing boards and governments keep the prices of things high. How do American farmers survive with those kinds of prices for their products? Maybe the US taxpayer subsidizes the farmers, and thereby the cost of food, a lot more than up here.

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

Same here with the Kansas City Boat show. Didn't see a manufature anywhere, it was all dealerships and I would guess 90% of the boats were last years boats or even 08 boats.

One exception, Yamaha did have a new 24' open bow dual jet drive there along with some jet skis. Nice looking boat for the money.

That's another thing, I did see lots of 08 and 09 models too....THAT was not what I wanted to see. It's 2010...

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

As my original post indicated, the three year old pickups that are selling for $35,000 in western Canada are diesel models. I know; I've been looking to replace my '04 3/4 ton GMC. Trucks with gas engines go for substantially less.

I was talking about diesel trucks too...the guy I sometimes buy cars with just bought one for himself. 06' Ford F350 crew cab 6.0 diesel 4x4 lariat with a NICE aluminum western hauler 5th wheel bed on it. It has 96,000 on it. $18,500.00 cash. And they are slightly less with a standard short or long bed...

Like I said, wanna make some $$$?

 

[northernmerc]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

I was talking about diesel trucks too...the guy I sometimes buy cars with just bought one for himself. 06' Ford F350 crew cab 6.0 diesel 4x4 lariat with a NICE aluminum western hauler 5th wheel bed on it. It has 96,000 on it. $18,500.00 cash. And they are slightly less with a standard short or long bed...

Like I said, wanna make some $$$?

Find me a nice '07 low mileage GMC SLT 4x4 classic crew cab diesel for that money and I'll be glad to talk! Just send me a PM.

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

Find me a nice '07 low mileage GMC SLT 4x4 classic crew cab diesel for that money and I'll be glad to talk! Just send me a PM.

If you're serious, PM me and I'll find what you're looking for. Low miles and 07 might be more, but nowhere near $35K.

 

[northernmerc]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

270Win, PM sent. Anyone else with leads, feel free to send a PM.

The wind kind of blew this topic off course; sorry for that. I guess the good news about low boat prices in the US is that bargains can be had for buyers.

 

[skargo]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

Personally, when it comes to toys, if I can't pay cash, I can't afford it and I have plenty of toys. I could not sleep at night with motorcycle or boat payments. We don't even have car payments. I have heard of boat loans as long as 40-50 years or something. I wonder what those boats cost if they ever get payed off. No thanks, I'll pay cash.

I agree with you 100%. We don;t finance anything, and the economy hasn't affected us at all, nor will it. We even bought a successful business 1 year ago, that thrives in down economies. I don't know how people sleep at night buried in debt.

 

[270win]

Re: Used boat market is sucking wind.

I don't know how people sleep at night buried in debt.

Me either...maybe Ambien or Zanax...

It's interesting, our business is doing well too...maybe it's because our overhead is lower with zero debt...plus my lack of personal debt doesn't cause me to drain the business dry of it's profits.