Mercury might leave WI

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Wow. Guess a lot of people there are going to find out what looking for a job in a bad economy is like.....sad for those that wanted to stay employed.

"If Mercury Marine, a subsidiary of Lake Forest, Ill.-based Brunswick Corp., shuts down the Fond du Lac plant, it would mean an annual loss of $353 million in workers earnings and an additional 5,900 in lost jobs due to the impact on suppliers, government and business in the area, according to the Fond du Lac County Economic Development Corp."

I've never felt "entitled" to a job. Even though I have a lot of experience and a few college degrees, I still always realize that I'm an employee of a company unless I decide to open one myself. I also know that it is not a publicly traded company's main purpose to keep people employed. The folks in WI should know that they are in competition with the other factories in a very slow sales time and act accordingly.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Read the entire story. Mercury will continue in WI until this contract runs out in a couple of years. I believe there is adequate time for people changed their minds and alter the decisions. This is not going to be a shut down and move this week, this year or even next year.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Ayuh,.... I think you mean,...
"the difference being that an Unions cannot make union membership a requirement of employment"....

Employers have No say in it....They forced to accept Unions in Non-Right to Work states....

I don't need your translating for me, thanks. I wrote exactly what I meant. Let me explain it to you. In non-right to work states, the unions negotiate with mgt. an agreement, part of which makes it a requirement of employment that the employees be union members. Unions cannot make any enforcable requirements of an employee. The company has to do that. That is precisely the difference between RTWS and non-RTWS. The aforementioned agreement is not legal in RTWS.

 

[mphy98]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Like I said in a previous post, will be strange to go to Fondulac and see an empty building with merc no longer on the side. What were they thinking. 2000 jobs lost to Oklahoma. Our loss is your gain. At least they are not going to China.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Like I said in a previous post, will be strange to go to Fondulac and see an empty building with merc no longer on the side. What were they thinking. 2000 jobs lost to Oklahoma. Our loss is your gain. At least they are not going to China.

Not yet, anyway...

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

I also know that it is not a publicly traded company's main purpose to keep people employed.

And that statement says a lot about the world in which we live. And it also begs the question "what is its main purpose?"

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Read the entire story. Mercury will continue in WI until this contract runs out in a couple of years. I believe there is adequate time for people changed their minds and alter the decisions. This is not going to be a shut down and move this week, this year or even next year.

I read it, and it's in pretty vague terms:
"Mercury Marine issued a statement after the vote saying it will move many of its Fond du Lac manufacturing operations to its facility in Stillwater, Okla., over the next two to three years. The company said it will continue to operate the Fond du Lac facility for now under the terms and conditions of the existing contract, which expires in 2012.

"This has been a very difficult and stressful process for all involved," Mark Schwabero, president of Mercury Marine, said in a statement. "We will work closely with our team in Fond du Lac to develop and communicate a transition plan for this 24-36 month process."

The way the statement is worded, they could start moving lines out Monday morning. Might take them 2 years to move everything........but they will probably let it die a slow, painful death.

 

[javsam]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Mercury Marine does not make an outboard in the US under 75 HP anymore.They have already gone to China.Let them move anyway their attitude towards their workers is pathetic,They wanted to eliminate recall rights for laid off workers(Workers with 20 years) and have them start over at 12 dollars an hour.There were huge concessions that they were after as well as eliminating pensions.This was far from a procedural change as suggested.The union president was correct in saying the devil is in the details.The deal was overwhelmingly voted down by the 830 workers.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

And that statement says a lot about the world in which we live. And it also begs the question "what is its main purpose?"

The main purpose of a corporation is to limit personal liability for investors. For instance, I, as an Intel Corp. stockholder, cannot be held liable for what the company does.

The second purpose is to provide investment return to the investors.

There is no third purpose. I find it kind of funny when it's expected that a company will "do the right thing", like they are referring to a person. Sometimes it happens that way with small, closely held, or private companies, but don't expect it out of large, old public companies. They have no reason or obligation to do so, UNLESS, by doing so, they create a tangible benefit to the shareholder.

Unfortunately, I've never found a scheme to enable a company to keep employment a top priority over profit and have it make long term sense for either party. In a non-competitive market, maybe, but if "the other guy" is slashing his labor costs by downsizing, moving, or offshoring, then you'll go down the tubes. Your ethics and morals will still be intact, but now nobody has a job......sorry for the long-winded diatribe, but I have to wrestle with this dilemma every single day. There isn't an easy, cut-and-dried answer

 

[Rocky_Road]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Mercury Marine does not make an outboard in the US under 75 HP anymore.They have already gone to China.Let them move anyway their attitude towards their workers is pathetic,They wanted to eliminate recall rights for laid off workers(Workers with 20 years) and have them start over at 12 dollars an hour.There were huge concessions that they were after as well as eliminating pensions.This was far from a procedule change as suggested.The union president was correct in saying the devil is in the details.The deal was overwhelmingly voted down by the 830 workers.

Management does what it deems is necessary to stay afloat...and compete in a shrinking market. The boating industry is on the 'ropes', and the companies that adapt stay alive...period.

These workers have probably bit off their nose, to spite their face.

Remember Eastern Airlines? Those unions played 'hard ball' when Eastern asked for concessions to stay alive. How did that go for the workers...?

 

[Rocky_Road]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

...They wanted to eliminate recall rights for laid off workers(Workers with 20 years) and have them start over at 12 dollars an hour....

Unless unemployment insurance pays more than $12/hr, they have probably just 'pi$$ed in their Post Toasties'.

Personally...I don't care if my Mercruiser is put together by child labor. Just keep making them....

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Yes, **** on Mercury outboards, plenty of folks building Evinrudes right here in my town would appreciate it. They've been forced to take a month off at a time, reduced hours, lay offs and all that junk. Tough market out there.

2 strokes rule.
I heard Verado has not been a good money maker for Mercury ? Course it was an Opti owner making that claim, Mercury insider none the less.........

 

[hazmat5760]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

[/B]

Unless unemployment insurance pays more than $12/hr, they have probably just 'pi$$ed in their Post Toasties'.

Personally...I don't care if my Mercruiser is put together by child labor. Just keep making them....

Don't know about WI, but in Iowa you make pretty damn close to what you were making while employed.


All those bashing the union employees, how would you feel if tomorrow your boss came down to your cubicle and told you that your pension is no more and that you're getting a pay cut as well?




Thanks to the government, I've lost all my overtime effective October 2009 essentially cutting my pay and my pension. Nothing my union can do though as it's a .gov order.

Are people so upset just because they are leaving Wisconsin? I'd bet my next paycheck Merc has wanted to leave for a long time. They are just using the union as their scape goat.

"Hey, if we just up and move we look like the bad guys. If we create some jacked up offer and threaten to move to oklohoma if it doesn't pass, the union looks bad."

Speaking of which, if they threatened to move to Oklahoma if the offer was refused, that's unfair labor practices and against the law!


In a right to work state, every employee is an at will employee. Which means that at anytime, for any reason, an employer can fire an employee. Another reason unions are good.

 

[pau hana]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

It's becoming very obvious who has run a business, with all the complex decisions to keep it solvent, and who has "drunk the koolaid" and is toeing the union line.

Eastern Airlines is a great example. Another, PATCO telling Reagan what he could and couldn't do. Lots of good that did those union folks.....

Plain and simple, free enterprise/capitalism is the backbone of the country- small businesses making up the majority of that backbone. The entrepreneur that had the guts to strike out on his own didn't do so to support a union, but to support his own dreams.

As far as this question:
"All those bashing the union employees, how would you feel if tomorrow your boss came down to your cubicle and told you that your pension is no more and that you're getting a pay cut as well?"

I would hope the writing had been on the wall that there were problems in the company. All the same, in your example, I don't run the company, and am building the boss' dream, not my own- so it is what it is.
I'd make lemonade out of the lemons, and go find something else, or start my own company.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

All those bashing the union employees, how would you feel if tomorrow your boss came down to your cubicle and told you that your pension is no more and that you're getting a pay cut as well?




Thanks to the government, I've lost all my overtime effective October 2009 essentially cutting my pay and my pension. Nothing my union can do though as it's a .gov order.

Been there done that.
The UNION told us the pension freeze and the 35% pay cut was a good deal.
Funny thing, the union bosses didn't take a cut.

As far as the overtime cut you may experience come October, the union doesn't want to do anything about that because they are gonna have to hire more employees to cover the hours, adding to the union membership.

It was probably the union that lobbied the gov't to hire more people and cut the overtime, in the name of safety.

What makes you think you have a right to overtime anyway.

Wasn't the old union line, " If you need overtime, you aren't getting paid enough." ? ANd didn't they always say, " Overtime premiums are there to discourage the employer from scheduling overtime work, so you could have time with your family." ?

Well we all know those lines are a load of bunk.

 

[Thad]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

I must say, I am mighty proud of you guys. I did not think it could be done, but you have kept this thing pretty straight and it is still open.

As far as what I think, I will just keep that to myself.

I do think that Mercury would have left sooner or later.

 

[hazmat5760]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Been there done that.
The UNION told us the pension freeze and the 35% pay cut was a good deal.
Funny thing, the union bosses didn't take a cut.

As far as the overtime cut you may experience come October, the union doesn't want to do anything about that because they are gonna have to hire more employees to cover the hours, adding to the union membership.

It was probably the union that lobbied the gov't to hire more people and cut the overtime, in the name of safety.

What makes you think you have a right to overtime anyway.

Wasn't the old union line, " If you need overtime, you aren't getting paid enough." ? ANd didn't they always say, " Overtime premiums are there to discourage the employer from scheduling overtime work, so you could have time with your family." ?

Well we all know those lines are a load of bunk.

I can guarantee the union did NOT lobby the gov't to cut our hours. The union fought long and hard for this not to go through. The nuclear Regulation Comittee has been making decisions based on hours worked to deter fatigue. here is no may to the cut either. It's mandated how many overtime shifts I can work in any given 6 week period. It's currently controlled, and has been for long time, but they are making it worse.


Our union is not like most. The stewards and above don't sit in a comfy office, drive comfy cars and make more money than the normal employee. We are working alongside those that we represent. Always have and always will.

People need to realize that not all unions are bad. I'm expected to give my life for this company and the public. If the company had their way, I'd be making minimum wage and have no benefits.


As far as your union dicking you over, that is messed up. You can file unfair labor practices on your own union if you wanted.

PS, I have never drank any union kool aid. Never have and never will. One, I'm in the wrong political party to be 100% union. Which makes it interesting when I go to training put on by labor board and express my views.

 

[hazmat5760]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Also, I don't mean to come off as an ***. Union bashing bothers me just as much as police bashing, military bashing and on down the line of things people bash.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[mscher]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

All those bashing the union employees, how would you feel if tomorrow your boss came down to your cubicle and told you that your pension is no more and that you're getting a pay cut as well?

Who would like it? No one. But it happens in the real world and this is the real world.

How is "making a stand" and then being shown the door helping anybody?

Sounds like less or no pension and a 100% pay cut, are in store, instead.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Mercury might leave WI

Unions cannot make any enforcable requirements of an employee. The company has to do that.

Ayuh,..... So with that line of thought,...

It's the Big Bad Company that we should all be Mad at for collecting all the Taxes taken from us every Payday,.?.?.?.
Even though it's at the Direction of the various taxing agencies,.?.?.?.?

Ya lost me on that 1.....

In a right to work state, every employee is an at will employee. Which means that at anytime, for any reason, an employer can fire an employee. Another reason unions are good.

If you're an At Will employee,....
You understand that you don't have a Right to a job....
You were hired to do a Job,...
If you can't,+ or Won't,.... Why should you be paid Not to do the job,..??

Ya know,.... Good employees are Never fired......