1986 Force '85

[Mark42]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Remove the carbs and clean them. They are very simple and easy to remove and reinstall. Took me less than 15 minutes to get them off the first time I did it.

It pays to stuff a couple of towels around the base of the engine shroud in case you drop a screw or nut down there. Its a pain to get them out.

Should also get some fresh fuel line and replace everything from the fuel pump to the top carb. Its probably hard and brittle anyway.

The choke solinoid plunger just pulls out. Seems rather odd, but that is the way it is.

Also, a spray bottle of gas/oil mix should be used when testing the motors to spray in the carbs rather than starting fluid. Thats because starting fluid can cause back-fire through the reed valves damaging them, and it also provides NO lubrication that the 2 cycle motor needs.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE IN GEAR IN A TUB OF WATER WITHOUT A PROP!

This is a sure way to over rev the engine. If you want to run it at idle with a prop, make sure you have a hose running into the tub as the prop will throw water out.

Fuel is running out of the carbs because the float needle is varnished up or stuck or the floats are stuck or sunk. You need to tear the carbs down.

The fuel pump diaphram needs to be replaced and Deep Creep should be sprayed on the fuel pump check valves to free them up. If they are sticking, the engine will never run correctly. They are located inside the fuel pump housing.

You should also take the small rubber lines on the side of the block and intake off and spray deep creep into all of the fittings. This is the fuel scavange system and some of the fittings have check valves. This takes excess fuel at the intake and routes it back to the crankcase for burning. They always carbon up.

Keep at it, you are doing a good job so far.

John

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Thanks for the help guys, I suppose ill just break down and buy the carb kits. It looks like this matches the model of my carb

http://www.maxrules.com/fixforcecarb.html#FK10220

they are WE9-1 (1) and WE9-2 (2) carbs. Is that the correct kit?

Thanks

Andy

 

[Mark42]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Thanks for the help guys, I suppose ill just break down and buy the carb kits. It looks like this matches the model of my carb

http://www.maxrules.com/fixforcecarb.html#FK10220

they are WE9-1 (1) and WE9-2 (2) carbs. Is that the correct kit?

Thanks

Andy

Not a bad idea to buy the carb kits, but I was able to disassemble and reassemble without using new gaskets. They are just oversize lawn mower carbs. Well, maybe a little more sophisticated, but not much!

 

[Mark42]

Re: 1986 Force '85

....


You should also take the small rubber lines on the side of the block and intake off and spray deep creep into all of the fittings. This is the fuel scavange system and some of the fittings have check valves. This takes excess fuel at the intake and routes it back to the crankcase for burning. They always carbon up.

....

Thanks for bringing that up. I need to do this to my motor, I understand it is a cause of excess smoke at idle.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

I just use the MTM 7023 kit which has the gaskets and needle. None of the other parts ever needed replacing.

John

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Quick update. I pulled the three carbs off and took a look all around, including the float bowl, and all seemed well. No varnishing, goop, weird colors, etc. I did not pull apart any more than the float bowl, but everything up to that point looked good.

As previously mentioned the gaskets stayed intact, so I put it all back together and just left it for now. The fuel lines are all relatively new (all are very pliable and I see a screw type hose clamp rather than the spring type clamp so I know someones done something around here).

Should I pursue the carbs further, I didnt inspect any of the needles as I didnt want to mess with the current adjustments, because I dont really know of a baseline to start with if i do.

Also, The throttle cam(?) that contacts the bottom carb roller on the starboard side is about 1/4 inch away from the actual roller and throttle linkage. I know that in the past i have bumped the throttle past idle in neutral and the engine raced. Is this normal to be seperated like this?

Thoughts, ideas, slandering?

As always, thanks for the input, you guys are great.

Andy

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

A baseline for setting up the carbs is 1 1/8 turns out from fully seated on the mixture screw.

You should set your carb/timing adjustments as the trottle cam should always be touching the roller at the index mark when the trottle is set to neutral. There is no halfway means of setting this linkage up. It must be done step by step per the manual or your engine will never run right.

As far as bumping the throttle past neutral, the only way you should be able to do this is when you pull the trottle out and push it forward for fast idle. If you can push the trottle past neutral and not be in gear, your rigging is definitely out of wack.

John

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

When I had the engine turned off and moved the throttle back and forth I didnt notice the throttle cam moving at all...should it have been?

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Let me redact all the statements pertaining to the cam linkage, i just went out and looked again and the reason it was 1/4" off is because I was manually twisting the throttle linkage on the carbs, however the cam was staying still.

If I let it go back to its 'defaults' it matches up with the index on the throttle cam and due to the camming action it appears that it will in fact open the throttle bodies correctly, so disregard all my statements regarding the cam. Sorry.

Thanks

Andy

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

It's been a while so a quick update. Engine is all in good repair it seems. Timing was way off so I got that adjusted. After adjusting on the carbs for a week I dug a bit deeper and had an idiot moment. Looked into all the carbs and the throttle body on the bottom carb was open to about 1/4 throttle with the top two fully closed. Adjusted the carb linkage so all three were closed at idle and between those two repairs the engine runs as well as Ive ever heard it.

Fast forward to this evening, when I loaded up and headed to the lake. This being the first time Ive had the boat in the water I wanted to unhook everything but the bow winch line and let it float for a bit to see if it sank/took on water. Good thing I did as immediately in the ski locker I saw water as well was the bilge. The water didnt appear to be gushing in however this was a bit frightening as it had only been in the water for a few moments time.

I winched it back in and pulled the boat up away from the ramp to inspect and while taking out the bilge drain plug I noticed that the entire collar that screws to the boat was loose. I started to unscrew the three screws and two of the brass screws broke off in the holes, one remained intact. I have to believe that this was loose enough to let the water in that I found.

My question is this, how do I replace/reattache the collar to the transom. The collar itself is in good shape. My thought was to rotate the assembly away from the existing screw holes, redrill three pilot holes into the transom, put a layer of 3M 5200 around the screw holes and main drain hole and reattach and let the whole mess cure.

Am I on the right track here or should I be doing something different?

Thanks

Andy

 

[Mark42]

Re: 1986 Force '85

If the transom is not rotten, then yes, reattach the garboard drain. Be sure to fill the old holes. The use the 5200 to attach the drain.

BTW, these 85hp motors run real smooth at idle. I was surprised after I got mine running nice.

 

[dorelse]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Good to have another 1986 Bayliner w/85 HP Outboard owner here. I personally am having a lot of fun with mine! Keep at it.

 

[tw0st3p]

Re: 1986 Force '85

Success! After installing the new drain plug we took it out Saturday morning for a shake-down run and it worked out well. The engine ran well and with about 350 pounds of people in the boat we topped out at about 42mph.

A couple of minor issues did come up though, namely it seems as thought at full throttle occasionally the engine will miss, almost like its sucking air. I tried to verify whether this happened exclusively when the fuel tanks were low and sloshing around or on a full tank. It seemed to be primarily when there was 1/2 tank or less that this occurred. Anyone ever experience something like this?

Secondly the bendix gear on the starter got stuck in the down position. Had to manually spin it up towards the flywheel and break it free then it would spin up when the starter was switched on. After a couple cranks it would stick in the down position again. Once home I lubed it up real good with marine grease and hit the starter about 10 times and it shot right up so hopefully this is taken care of.

All in all I think minor repairs and appearance work from here on out, until I tackle re-decking everything. That will be a winter project.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Andy

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: 1986 Force '85

I've had pretty good success getting my 85 force running good. still need to do some tweaking to it to try and get a little more fuel economy (getting about 2mpg @ WOT) and also try to get a little more speed out of it.
with just me in the boat, i'll top out about 33-35 mph. This is also and 1986 Bayliner Capri 1600

still need to double check the timing, idle and fuel/air mix.

checking the timing may present an issue since there are no timing marks on the flywheel. (was this just a label/sticker on the flyweel? I do have 3 verticle lines about 3/8" apart on one section of the flywheel, maybe thats them...i'd expect to have better timing marks on the wheel)

 

[john from md]

Re: 1986 Force '85

If you have three marks with 5/32 spacing or so between them, that should be 28, 30 and 32 degrees. Now, looking at them, about three inches or so away should be one mark by itself. This mark is 0 degrees.

The Seloc book, and maybe the Clymer, give you instructions for marking the flywheel when there are no marks on it.

JOhn

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: 1986 Force '85

yep...those are the marks i have