Hailing KiwiPhil

[LadyFish]

How do we treat saltwater saturated soil for planting?

In mid-September our property suffered damage from Hurricane Ike. Our lawn and garden was under saltwater from the storm surge for about a week.

Right now there is nothing left but dirt and a few weeds that are struggling to come up. Although our palms did survive.

In the spring we will redo all of our landscape but don't want to plant in bad soil. Is there anything we can do now to prep the soil?

 

[Turin]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

There ain't that much that you can do.

Palms will survive in salt-water (salt grounds) conditions.
there are few plant who can but you could plant these for a few years so salt will go out of the ground.

The other possibility is to make a drain system simply drainage pipes in your soil and give loads of fresh water (expensive though) so you flush the salt out.

And you could put a layer of good earth on your field at least half a meter.


You can read Dutch so I put a link to what I mean here.



http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drainage)

The link water bouw

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

Dear lady: a few years back, well more than a few years, my family vacationed on big pine key.

They always have storm surges, and the landscaping there was as a desert theme.

A lot of sand in the front with ponds, and a few plants around, very nice to behold, and easy on the upkeep.

Also some had marble rocks and a few plants, around very nice to look at also, and very low upkeep. Was great for drainage.

Just a suggestion.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

There are some reeds and grasses that will grow. Probably not what you're shooting for.

I couldn't find the pic, somewhere on a home improvement site I saw someone's backyard where they had planted a very large area of cattails. They had constructed a "pier" (just off the ground) through the reeds out to a deck area. It was very well done.

Although not salty but definitely sandy, you might wanna check out homes in Arizona who seem to have beaches for yards for inspiration should you be stuck with the current conditions. (Low maintenance!)

 

[DJ]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

LF,

Here in AZ we have high mineral soils, which are essentially salts. There are different kinds of salts. Not to mention, our soil is actually an ancient sea bed (The last Global Warming).

You have a couple of choices.

1. For awhile, anyway, you could identify plants that can handle it, unless you want to do what Turin suggested, that is huge amounts of fresh topsoil.

2. Have your soil tested. Most nurseries can do it. The County extension office may also know of facilities. The testing will determine the acidity or alkaline (PH) of the soil. Once known, there are products (lime, potash, etc.) you can spread/mix in to aid in bringing the soil back to the proper PH. That in itself may bring it back to allow local plants to fourish.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

My immediate response to your 1st sentence was "oh Sh--!"

I wonder what your geographical situation is.

I thought I saw a photo once of a jetty on your property ????
If you are close to the water, then are you built on sand.....is the sand raised much above the water, or are you in a hollow (not necessarily a small one, but maybe one of many acres) so surroundings drain into or below you.

Remember raised sand drains easily, and rains will wash thru it quickly.

Drainage is not difficult (except for Holland because they are doing it up-hill), but where are you going to drain too, and will drainage cause issues in the future.....meaning every time it rains, the drains remove all moisture from your sub-soil leaving you with a very dry block.

I am guessing you are close to the sea water, so late this afternoon I will go out to an island that is at the most 3m above sea level.....14,000 people live there....so I will have a look at what they grow and how they do it.
Might ring my mate Tex....he spent a lot of time in Galveston.

You have some good advice here, but i think the geographical lay of your land is the 1st critical point to start from.

As a side issue, we have terrible soil (heavy highly reactive/expansive clays), and some people will build raised garden beds and plant their exotic shrubs, palms etc in them, and then maybe 1-2" inches of topsoil over ground as a base for turf.

I do know there is a grass called Kykuyu that grows on difficult surfaces....broad leaf....very green....thick runners....develops like a soft thick carpet (don't mow low)...binds ground (sand) together well....covers clays and slightly gravel'y surfaces..... very hard wearing.....invasive, so you need to trim the edges to your gardens maybe once a month in spring....hangs on in the dry well......100% nicer than the couches.
If you have an interest, let me know and I will hunt down some and photo it.

I would also watch very closely at what others in similar situations have done.
I would also see if I could find results from the hurricanes that hit your area the yr previous.
You'r not the 1st one, so maybe the secret is not to spend time re-inventing the wheel, but spend it in researching what others found as a solution.

I will be back.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

...........I will be back.

Hasta la vista, Phillip.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

Hasta la vista, Phillip.

Oh no! an Aussie Terminator.

Thought we had our hands full with an Austrian one!

 

[mthieme]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

Yeah, but he's not up for re-election.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

You don't want to see Aussies idea of a Terminator !!

Ladyfish.
The island has 2 different types or beach.

1. Surf Beach...proper rolling surf and sand dunes. They have used seaside ground covers, not pretty, but practical. 100m back in housing area, turf is used, few native trees and shrubs.
2. Passage side (no surf) ugly native trees on waterfront, maybe 1m above high tide, very sandy, good hard wearing turf (obviously sown by seed). This is a heavily used public area.
70m back residential starts....not 2m above high tide. The verge on side of footpath is good grass. Houses all have good turf, and depending on gardener, plenty of Palms and exotics. Sand seems well covered and not an issue.

So it seems salt water is not transpiring up thru the sand to effect plantings.

So my opinion at this point is:

1. look to your drainage. If it is natural and good, then you may not have a problem, and if you do, then natures rain may flush salts thru and out.

2. If palms are still ok then maybe now is the time to look at using more of them. I love the self cleaning ones, Golden Cane, Alexander etc. There are some beautiful ones available, and once their umdrella canopy forms, under-plantings of Dwarf Impatiens and New Guinea Impatiens are magic, big range of bromelaids, etc.....just need the time.
(Hayden built a beautiful rainforest, saved his bucks for some nice palms, and his under-plantings are very nice).

3. Why not replace the lawn with something really nice and different....like I mentioned above, and if that is a problem, why not use artificial.

If you want ideas, Hayden would love to show you his 'place'.

See how you go.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

the Fl Keys, are basic coral, so plantings can be sparse, but some people do get nice landscaping, but it looks mostly in raised beds. here are some pics from this summer.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

 

[rolmops]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

It sounds like you should do this project as a community effort.
Dependent on how much farther up(subterranean)stream the salt has reached,your efforts to remove it from the soil should be done with upstream gardeners in your area.Otherwise,no matter how much water you invest in draining the salt from your land,you always will get more from upstream.
On the bright side,salt water is heavier than fresh water and since this salt is only suspended in the water and not chemically bound, the salt has a tendency to "sink" specially in sandy soils.If you can get an organized effort to heavily (over)irrigate your areas lawns,it will be quite easy to flush the salt down and out.A few good rain storms will also help out.Remember,for grass,the top 10 inches of soil is mostly what you are concerned with.Between a salt tolerant grass variety and some material that chemically binds salt, leaving it inert, you should be fine within a year.Most (organic) chemistry teachers can tell you about ionic neutralizing of salt and what chemicals to use.Lime comes to mind.
There is another problem that you may face.It has to to with the organic materials in your garden.The soil bacteria must have been beaten up quite a bit.You may actually have to deal with "repopulating" your soil.
This you can do by mixing lots of leaf mulch in with your soil and adding some "seeder" soil from a healthy area that contains the worms ,bugs and bacteria that have been wiped out by the salt.This however should be done after the salt has been neutralized or flushed out.
May your lawn be green again.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

i imagine trying to get a community effort for landscaping will be kind of hard. if you did not see the news, yesterday, one of the biggest employers on the island has cut staff, by more than half. The Hospital, Drs., nurses, all the way to the bottom. beside the strive from Ike, they are getting an other big dose of tragedy.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

Thanks for all your comments.

The soil is very sandy but for the last 17 years we've been able to have a very healthy and beautiful San Augustine lawn up until the storm. We will resod in the spring and hope we get enough rain this winter to flush the soil of the salt. Rolmps brought up another issue, the soil bacteria and other organic materials that contribute to healthy soil.

I had been wanting to plant more shrubs and palms this month but I think with the stressed out condition of the soil, I will wait.

Has anyone ever tried gypsom to treat soil?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

Why don't you take a soil sample to the county/state agriculture extention office. here they do the samples for free, and tell you what to do.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

Why don't you take a soil sample to the county/state agriculture extention office. here they do the samples for free, and tell you what to do.

You've read my mind! I hate when that happens.:redface:

 

[rolmops]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

We tried some Gypsum and what we found it that because of its very fine structure it flushes out fast and then when the ground dries up it aggregates around the drainage where it sometimes even crystallizes and starts forming hard veins.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

We tried some Gypsum and what we found it that because of its very fine structure it flushes out fast and then when the ground dries up it aggregates around the drainage where it sometimes even crystallizes and starts forming hard veins.

Thanks rolmops, good information.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Hailing KiwiPhil

Tasha that was big pine key and key deer ?

I have pics. of my oldest daughter at 3 feeding them, they ate right out of her hand.

We rented a home on the canal, and the ocean side was right across the road with a vacant lot across from the house.

When we were there someone stuck a very young deer and i carried it in and cleaned up it's wounds, and bandaged it, than called the police.

They came with a vet and said it was a very good job i did, and would have been, what the vet would have done, so they released it right in front of the house. No brokin bones very lucky deer.

It's a big fine, for killing those pine deer only place in the world they live.