Re: What the Merc dealer says
Btuvi PM'd me this message, i'm going to post it in the forum so everyone can read and learn.
btuvi said:
225 optimax is neither an efi nor is it a sterndrive. Since you specifically mentioned these two are you including opti in your approach?
Actually an optipop is an EFI. It is just 1 of the many versions that the generic term efi refers to. Technically It is a DFI or (DEFI). It is a design by Orbital corp out of Austrailia, and not a Merc design. I am quite familiar with it.
btuvi said:
When the boat would not run out properly when I did a test run (would miss and not run at power) we took it to Merc dealer who immediately put computer on engine (took about a minute) and checked a myriad of things. This approach seemed to be most reasonable since it only took a moment and would quickly identify or eliminate an entire range of problems. In fact, there was a problem identified (loose wire/sensor front of engine that said engine being told that it was colder than it actually was and so engine was being fed more gas than appropriate). Wire was tightened and computer check run and I was told problem was fixed and engine was good to go. Dealer may have been right about loose wire and may have been right about "engine good to go" since there could be another problem only indirectly related to engine - bad fuel, for instance. But having dealer tell me that my "problem" was fixed when in fact it was not is one of the things that makes me question what a dealer tells me.
When problem persisted I took it to second Merc dealer whose approach was to check compression first. Since the first dealer elected to run computer check and it is so simple and easy to do I would have thought that would be approach of second dealer. You feel differently and I would like to understand why.
Which is exactly why I said in my first post
captjason said:
but the fact of the matter is, is that you need to fix what you find along way, and keep going. As with any engine (but epsecially in the marine world) unless your engine only a season or 2 old, the odds of having multiple problems goes up every year the thing gets older.
It sounds like somebody was looking for a quick fix.
As with any engine..... you either have a mechanical problem, a fuel problem, or an electrical/ignition problem...... or a combination of the 3. It always comes down to 3 basic systems. Opti's have an air system... but you can file that under mechanical.
btuvi said:
you feel differently and I would like to understand why
It all depends on what an engine is doing... and how much you want to shuck out for me to find your problem(s). I like to start with mechanical system first. For a bunch of reasons.
First, every engine needs a minimum amout of compression to run correctly. Any less and it will never run right. The engines computers job is to keep the engine running, no matter what. And the engines computer has no idea what your compression is. The ECU also has no idea if you have water in the fuel, a problem with the boat side fuel system, cross threaded spark plugs, etc etc. When you read what you read in the ECU your assuming everything else is correct. Now i'm not saying it's a bad thing to start with a scan tool first.... it all depends on the complaint with the engine.
btuvi said:
You commented on cross threaded spark plug but didn't offer a solution. Dealer says options are to tap and replace plug and hope for the best or send back to factory for reman. Are those really the only two options? I've been told that local machine shop would helioarc, tap, and rethread. Why would this option not have been mentioned? Wouldn't that seem to be the most reasonable alternative? Could that have been what dealer meant when he said "tap"? If so why would he also say "hope for the best"?
The solution is replace the head. Helicoils never work (even though helicoil says they will). Heliarcing is a different story, but here's the deal.
The dealer is a representive of the Brunswick(Mercury) corp. They represent the company, the companies product, and the companies product solutions. There is a million different ways you can fix anything. But the dealer has to represent the way Mercury wants it to be fixed, and thats it. You can always call Merc, but your not going to get very far. Its more of a legal thing.
Look at it this way. If you helicoiled a spark plug, and your on the water and the spark plug blows out, what happens??? What happens is the cowl fills up with fumes, and then explodes hopefully not killing you or anybody else. However, at best, your out an engine, at worst your without a boat and or family members. This situation is known as a lawyers dream. The lawyer is going to find out about the work done to the boat, and they are going to sue Helicoil, the dealer, the mechanic that did the work, and brunswick.... and see who folds/settles first.... The same thing can be said about heliarcing. now the lawyers are going to sue everyone plus the machinist. Brunswick is going to look at it and say "that's not the way we do things" and wipe their hands of it. So now it's on the dealer.
Dealers know this, and that's why they will only (hopefully) make repairs to Merc specifications. If you want to take your chances... then it's on you, and I don't blame the dealer for taking that stance.
btuvi said:
Since I have no mechanical expertise it is important to me that I be able to rely on dealer. In this instance their approach to determining "missing" problem (not first using computer to check) combined with their comments about cross threading problem/solution leaves me in doubt as to the other problems identified and solutions offered.
Listen... you have a bad head. More than likely caused by the last clown that put spark plugs in it. Like i've been saying... fix what you find and move on. Thats the name of the game. There is absolutely no point in spending any more time in the engine if your not willing to fix that problem. There are still some things that could be checked even with the bad plug hole, but that takes time. If i'm the shop, and i'm already into you for 2 hours of diagnostic time, i'm not going to spend any more time until i'm sure that your going to pay me for my time.... wether you choose to fix the problem or not.
btuvi said:
They said that corrosion on fittings were caused by pinhole leak in gasket. Someone had applied a dab of silicone to stop leak. Maybe it worked - maybe it didn't. There is no way to tell. But isn't there a product that, applied over that dab of silicone or after scraping silicone off, would give me more assurance that the leak problem would be fixed? In other words, is the only solution to replace gasket? At $99 per hour and six or seven hours involved it is an expense to be avoided unless it is the only practical solution.
What say you?
Thanks for your comments.
Btuvi
I don't know.... i don't have anything to say about that.
If you say your boat is throttleing up... then falls on its face, then throttles up again.... repeat repeat, and your having a wide surge in power. Here is what i personally would check first.
1. engine compression
2. boat side fuel system for restrictions and air leaks
3. engine side fuel pressure, and engine side air pressure.
it sounds like your either loosing fuel pressure or just don't have enough to sustain rpms....
Or... your loosing air pressure or just don't have enough to sustain rpms.... Could be the compressor, could be a valve in the balancing system, could be a pressure relief valve.... could be alot of things. You may be able to shoot some power tune in the compressors air intake and fix everythign.... (except for the plug hole) or the hole DFI system may be junk. Who knows. The optis will run with the entire air (DFI) system not working... they just run like crap and make no power. But that's just what it sounds like... and lots of things can sound like lots of things... the boat is not in front of me.
None of that requires a scan tool. just some gauges.
Best of luck.
Jason
. Let the dealer eat that if it gets "fubar"