New eBay scams in Europe!

SnappingTurtle

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Organized European crime networks are now using eBay to legally scam sellers on high ticket items.

Electronics, Boats, Motorcycles, Cars, & Trucks.

Here goes ...

1.Very early in these auctions, they “low ball” bid, way below market value.

2.Within seconds a couple accomplices will both bid in close succession a “Maximum Bid”, two or three times, over new value of the object being sold.

3.This in turn scares off all legitimate bidders. No one in their right mind will now bid on the item when it is now priced over new value.

4.Seconds before the end of the auction, both (accomplices) high bidders will withdraw their offers, leaving the last remaining high bid to win, in this case the first bid. This bid was the first bid for pennies on the dollar of the items true worth or value and your Electronics, Boat, Motorcycle, Car, or Truck is then sold for next to nothing.

5.As winners of the auction they now have all the sellers contact details from eBay.

6.They then follow up with a e-mail & phone call within minutes of the end of the auction saying they will be picking up the item and paying cash. Any arguments to the contrary from the seller, are followed up by anonymous calls with threats to the family of the seller, along with details about spouses and children of the seller.

7.They show up in multiple vehicles, along with semi trucks, often already full of other eBay wins, strong arm the paper work, and items bought from the seller. This takes place in minutes leaving the seller scared and feeling stupid.

8.The police can do nothing, because the sale is legally binding. Sometimes their presence is enough to scare the buyers off, most times not.

9.eBay says officially, there is nothing wrong with their system, nothing will be changed, this feature is there to protect the buyer, and will not be changed.

Tough luck sucker, say all officials here.
 

tashasdaddy

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SnappingTurtle

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

Oh but T-Daddy, you are an experienced eBay professional! :D You know how the system works, most of my friends and neighbors don't.

These are most often people who have never sold, or only sold cheaper items on eBay, that are being scammed.

It is now a big enough problem here, that the German FBI issued a warning to sellers.
 

mthieme

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

Having accomplices bid is illegal on a Federal level. I can't recall the exact terminology at the moment. This is not new as this activity has occurred long before computers.
I would have thought that proving it in today's electronic world would be impossible, but I have seen it happen.

Too, eBay will not allow a bid retraction I believe within 12 hours of the end of an auction.

Always check feedback.
 

Mark42

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

Having accomplices bid is illegal on a Federal level. I can't recall the exact terminology at the moment. This is not new as this activity has occurred long before computers.
I would have thought that proving it in today's electronic world would be impossible, but I have seen it happen.

Too, eBay will not allow a bid retraction I believe within 12 hours of the end of an auction.

Always check feedback.

I think you are referring to "Shill Bidders", and you are right, they are illegal. Ebay know that and should take the appropriate action to invalidate the auction if you report it. I guess that is the catch, reporting it.
 

mthieme

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

I think you are referring to "Shill Bidders", and you are right, they are illegal. Ebay know that and should take the appropriate action to invalidate the auction if you report it. I guess that is the catch, reporting it.

Yes, that's it exactly. Darn memory, ....eyes, back, arches, joints, stamina, motivation....what next? (don't say it!)

I don't know if eBay has made themselves any more accessible, but I had the need to contact them two or three years ago and found it to be quite a task. (Someone cracked my password).
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

In a “proof of concept” test they pulled the scam last night on TV with representatives from the police watching over their shoulder.

The bids were retracted three seconds before auction end.

Reports to eBay went unanswered until the TV station contacted them. eBay's only comment was that feature was there to protect buyers who accidentally typed the wrong bid at the last minute. It would not be changing anything.

Addresses and accounts were faked by the buyers, and all had excellent seller/buyer feedbacks.

Sell a bunch of cheap stuff to accomplices, who give you great ratings, and then sucker someone on their big ticket auction. Feedback means nothing!
 

fishrdan

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

eBay's only comment was that feature was there to protect buyers who accidentally typed the wrong bid at the last minute.

I've had buyer's retract bids a few times buy using this, stating they entered the wrong amount. In reality, they bid, then asked questions after bidding, didn't like the answer they got and retracted the bid... Seems the system is flawed.

Typing in the wrong bid amount... Yeah right, they make you confirm the price you typed in before you commit to purchase. If you missed it twice in a row,,,, Oh well, you just bought a $10,000 fur lined, velvet Elvis ash tray :D
 

Beefer

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

I've been an ebay'er since 1/99, and I remember a number of years ago this was being done state-side, which I believe caused the introduction of the 12 hour rule. The 12 hour thing may be only a US eBay thing, and may not be in effect in the European eBay markets?

EBay will side with the seller, but if there is the actual possibility of physical harm, what can be done?
 

jbjennings

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

Thank goodness for the 2nd amend. here in the U.S. I'd like to see 'em try that strong-arm tactic on one of us Lousiana country boys!!!!
They'd be saying yes sir and no sir and "could we please get back in our truck and leave, sir???":(

Obviously they know they don't have to worry about it in Europe.:confused:
JBJ
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

I've been an ebay'er since 1/99, and I remember a number of years ago this was being done state-side, which I believe caused the introduction of the 12 hour rule. The 12 hour thing may be only a US eBay thing, and may not be in effect in the European eBay markets?

EBay will side with the seller, but if there is the actual possibility of physical harm, what can be done?

eBay in the States, and eBay in Germany, are two separate companies.

These are eBays two biggest markets and both are pretty healthy, but in the Internet bubble years, it was not known which eBays would thrive, and which eBays would crash with the rest of the online world. They set them all up as separate companies, so that when one went down, the rest still had a chance to survive.

While they all look the same and link to each other, they are not legally connected. What one does, or doesn't do, has little influence on the others.
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

Thank goodness for the 2nd amend. here in the U.S. I'd like to see 'em try that strong-arm tactic on one of us Lousiana country boys!!!!
They'd be saying yes sir and no sir and "could we please get back in our truck and leave, sir???":(

Obviously they know they don't have to worry about it in Europe.:confused:
JBJ

That is a really good point JB, and you are right. I see things happen here, that would never happen in the States just because of this. You are in many cases powerless to protect yourself, your family, or your property.

The Police are worthless in most cases when confronted with such situations. The criminal element knows this, Germans, and everybody else here are left powerless to do anything on their own.

In a video that one of the employees of a small used motorcycle company filmed in secret, hiding behind a large garbage dumpster, as they (the buyers) loaded one of their motorcycles into a semi truck that had Lithuanian license plates, as did the two Mercedes blocking the driveway to the small companies parking lot. There were about ten men in black leather dress jackets standing around looking big, mean, and very serious.

They were gone within minutes of showing up. The local police got there about 15 minutes later and said they could do nothing, because nobody had broken a law as far as they were concerned.

This seller had received threatening calls concerning his family after the sale before they (the buyers) arrived and had reported it to the Police. The local police said there is no prove that the calls are related to the buyer, and without concrete evidence, they will do nothing here.

Europe has no boarder controls anymore, and this stuff is over the boarders headed east within hours of being loaded.
 

SgtMaj

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

You get what you pay for when you post a no-reserve auction. I'd say that reserve is well worth the extra 25 cents.
 

Nos4r2

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

The 12 hour rule applies in the UK too. I'm surprised it's not EU-wide.
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

You get what you pay for when you post a no-reserve auction. I'd say that reserve is well worth the extra 25 cents.

I agree with you on this point, but those that put a limit here, often go without bidders. Same with the many that try the “Buy It Now” feature.

I think they try this several times and watch the others go up, while their auction receives little, or no attention, and sooner or later they list it as no-reserve. That is the big mistake.

The economy is in really bad shape in Europe, and has been for a long time (10+ years). Bidders have gotten really tight with their money, leaving many sellers sitting on their items for months, sometimes years.

Many of the sellers are also car, boat, and motorcycle dealers that would have years ago never tried to sell over the Internet. Now they have no choice.

They are hungry, have to sell, and people prey on the the weak. Hungry people make mistakes, they are desperate, take more risk, and that is when the get ripped off.
 

SgtMaj

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

If that's the case, they just need to set the reserve a little lower than they would like. I guarantee you if the reserve is below the highest amount someone would have bid on the item (legitimately), it will receive bids. I think the real problem there is wishful thinking on the part of the sellers. Just because they bought a car for $10,000 two years ago, doesn't mean people today would be willing to pay $5,000 for it... especially in today's tight economy. But place a $2,000 reserve on it instead of a $5,000 reserve, and you're likely to get some bids, and they're more likely to be legitimate bids, since those scammers aren't likely to want to pay 2 grand for it when they can find another sucker from whom they can buy the same thing for $1. But people do like to think their stuff is worth more than it actually is.
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

If that's the case, they just need to set the reserve a little lower than they would like. I guarantee you if the reserve is below the highest amount someone would have bid on the item (legitimately), it will receive bids. I think the real problem there is wishful thinking on the part of the sellers. Just because they bought a car for $10,000 two years ago, doesn't mean people today would be willing to pay $5,000 for it... especially in today's tight economy. But place a $2,000 reserve on it instead of a $5,000 reserve, and you're likely to get some bids, and they're more likely to be legitimate bids, since those scammers aren't likely to want to pay 2 grand for it when they can find another sucker from whom they can buy the same thing for $1. But people do like to think their stuff is worth more than it actually is.

I agree!
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: New eBay scams in Europe!

The 12 hour rule applies in the UK too. I'm surprised it's not EU-wide.

eBay UK, and eBay Deutschland are two different companies. They can each set their rules for using thier platform as they wish, it has nothing to do with EU legalities.
 
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