SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

momo2000

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Jun 25, 2008
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I am new to boating and I think I have a problem I recently purchased a 1993 Lawson All American 190 (a 19? bowrider) with 4.3L V6 GM based Yamaha I/O engine. I believe this means a GM inboard and Yamaha outboard.

The previous owner told me that he had forgotten take out the freeze plugs 2 winters ago, so the block cracked and he had a local marina put in a ?First Mate? rebuild engine in it (From the warranty, item# GM262LH, S/N: 236071). This seems to be true as I have the paperwork/warranty from the marina dated 5/4/07 when the engine was replaced.

I took the boat out on a test drive, it worked just fine, so I bought it. I have had the boat out 3 times with my family and have come to the conclusion that it is leaking about 1 quart of oil in the bilge per outing.

The ski storage and bilge area were a little oily but clean when I looked at the boat before purchasing, but when asked, the answer was that that was all there from the engine replacement.

Here are the other things I notice:
-the boat runs well.
-the oil on the dipstick looks good and clean.
-there is no external oil discharge, only in the bilge area.
-oil pressure seems OK at about 70psi when running.
-water temp is OK.

SO MY QUESTIONS ARE:

#1. Any thoughts on what this is? I assume ?IF? this was leaking when sold, then the pervious owner probably knew, and it is something ?bad?. I know this is a crazy question, but any general theories given that the engine was serviced a year ago and is there any typical problems with this type/boat/brand of engine?

#2. What course of action do you recommend? I am ?handy? but have no delusions about pulling the engine. I have been considering taking the rear seat out and other panels around the engine compartment then taking it out on the lake to see if I can see where the leak is coming from (oil filter, oil pan, seals, crack block) but it looks very tight. But in the end will almost certainly have to get someone else to do the work.

#3. The Marina that replaced the engine is about 90 miles away from where I store the boat, so I?m also trying to decide if there is any benefit in taking it back to the marina that did the work, or should I just take it to a local marina that is on the lake where I keep the boat.

Again, I am new to boating and am trying to figure out my next step. Yes, I have learned a lot about boats recently and would probably purchase one differently now (and defiantly have it checked out by a mechanic).


Thanks.
 

jerryjerry05

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Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

First is the oil coming from the motor?You need to top it off each time?Any color to the oil(power steering fluid).
A quart is a lot. Sometimes when a replacement block is used the new or old oil dipstick hole doesn't get pluged.Some come with a paper plug that goes quick.
If they used the old oil pan then it could have rusted thru.Or not sealed it correctly.
Get a good light and inspect everything in the motor compartment.Check it when it's at idle and under a load(be carefull) Let us know Jerry
 

Gary H NC

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Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

That much oil should be able to find the leak.
Get some citris based engine cleaner and get everything cleaned up.
A mirror and a good light should find the leak.
The timing chain cover and oil pans are the usual places on those engines.
They probably used the old ones off the bad engine.
 

Bondo

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Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

and is there any typical problems with this type/boat/brand of engine?

Ayuh,...Welcome Aboard....

There's 1 little Problem with your new boat,...
The Yamaha Power train...
They only imported them for a couple of years,+ then Totally Abandon the market.... No Parts Support,...
Nothing.....

Except for an ole salty dog from Florida, named Capt. Ken......

As for the Oil Leak,.....
Ya gotta Find it,.. Before you can devolop a Plan to Fix it.......
 

momo2000

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Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Thanks to all 3 of you (jerryjerry05, Gary H NC, Bond-o) for the fast replies. This seems like a great forum.

-Yes, it is my belief that the oil is leaking out of the bottom setion of the motor (I don't see it on the top or sides) from a quick inspection).
-I am going to take your suggestions and take out the back seat, and surrounding engine compartment structure, clean it up, fill with oil, and then take it out to find the leak. Agreed that 1 quart is a lot, so I should be able to find it. I will pay particular attention to the timing chain cover and oil pan.
-Thanks for the comment on the Yamaha power train . . . I had no idea.

The boat is 90miles from me in the storage facility near the lake, and I won't be able to get up there for about 3 weekends, but I ABSOLUTLY WILL let you guys know what I find out when I do the inspection.

Here's to finding something that makes a funny story . . .
 

momo2000

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Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

UPDATE=> Went up to the boat yesterday. I took out the back seat, engine cover and EVERYTHING but the engine :) then took it out to see if I could figure out where the leak was coming from. I couldn't find it. I took it to the marina and checked it in to the service department. They should get to it later this week. I went back and forth, but decided to leave off all the stuff I had taken off . . . figured they'd just have to take it off again.
 

momo2000

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PROBLEM SOLVED=> Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

PROBLEM SOLVED=> Re: New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Well the marina got it fixed. But I wonder about the price. They said it was the oil pan gasket. When I took it in, they said it would be $800 for something simple up to $1,600 if it was the main seal. So the bill is $1,200 for the oil pan gasket. I know the gasket is only a few bucks, and this job is all about labor (engine out/in) and diagnostics. SO, do folks think $1,200 is a reasonable and customary charge for this service??? Going to pick it up on Thursday 7/24, so wanted some feedback, since this is my first boating repair. Not sure what their hourly rate is but am going to ask. I am happy to pay for the work, but just don't want to get ripped off. Thanks.
 

superpop

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

That is freaking highway robbery. Unless they had to pull the motor out of the boat this should be a few hundred dollars. All I did was remove the 15 or so bolts that hold the Pan in place, went down to Schucks and picked up a new gasket for 50 bucks and put the pan back in, in less than an hour. Look in the bilge and see how many inches of clearance you have between the bottom of the motor and the floor of the bilge. If it is 2-3 inches or more then they should not have had to pull the motor. This assumes that you took it in with all the seats and crap removed around the motor. That vintage of boat will eat you alive in repair bills unless you find a reputable shop to do the repairs and understand what is wrong before handing them the keys. With the economy the way it is now, some of these shops are getting desperate and will take advantage of unsuspecting customers really fast.
 

bruceb58

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

You really need to pull the motor to replace the pan gasket in most boats. Not sure where you get 2"-3" as minimum clearance. You must have forgotten that there is an oil pump and oil pickup in there. The total price depends on the boat as some boats are very difficult to get the motor out of.
 

bamadave

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Might be a steal at 1200.00, some I wouldn't do at any price because the tight quarters. I can't stand on my head and work like I used to be able to.
 

momo2000

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Oh, I understand they had to take the engine our to find it . . . . as I had looked and looked and couldn't find the leak. SO my question is/was does $1,200 seem like a reasonable price for a marina to pull the engine, diagnose the problem, determine that it was the oil pan gasket and then replace the engine?
 

tommays

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Jul 4, 2004
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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

1 pull outdrive
2 move all kinds of stuff and pull motor (electric,fuel , ect )
3 fix leak
4 replace motor
5 do drive alignment
6 replace all kinds of stuff you had to take out
7 clean up finger prints on boat that was as clean as your living room or costumer screams


Up here it is 125 and hour so 1200 does not go far
 

momo2000

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Ok, so I'm hearing that that sounds like a reasonable price. Thanks.
 

superpop

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

It depends on the boat, my pan could drop 3 inches and I could snake the gasket around the pump ect. It took me 3 hours total to fix. Depends on the boat though.
 

littlebookworm

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Welcome to the site. Sorry your first adventure here was such an expensive one. The price you paid for the work they did is alot, but seems totally reasonable. It's not fast and easy to pull an engine, change the pan gasket, put it all back together, align it, and make sure it's not leaking anymore. Look at it as your initiation fee. Now go enjoy your boat. Safe boating. Hy
 

bruceb58

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

It depends on the boat, my pan could drop 3 inches and I could snake the gasket around the pump ect. It took me 3 hours total to fix. Depends on the boat though.
Of course you are assuming the pan is good. Many times the leak is caused by a rusty pan and not by the gasket.
 

Bondo

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Quote:
Originally Posted by superpop
It depends on the boat, my pan could drop 3 inches and I could snake the gasket around the pump ect. It took me 3 hours total to fix. Depends on the boat though.

Of course you are assuming the pan is good. Many times the leak is caused by a rusty pan and not by the gasket.

Ayuh,.....

It's Just Plain Easier to pull the drive,+ motor......
Ok, so I'm hearing that that sounds like a reasonable price. Thanks.

Well,..... It's Not Unreasonable............

Now,.... Might be the time to Upgrade,..... Just to get Away from that Yamaha......:rolleyes:
 

Maclin

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

One more thing you will have is some recourse if the work goes awry at some point.
 

kmadsen

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Jun 8, 2008
Messages
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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

Have a '93 OMC 4.3L GM Cobra and had same problem. First Question, is oil leak is spraying on starboard (right) side of engine. You can tell if that side of engine is oily and spark plug wires, starter, engine cover..etc are oily wet. If so, If you look just in front of starter, below #4 sparkplug, along the top of oil pan where it is attached to the engine, there is what seems to be a hole for a bolt that juts out from engine and seems to go down into oil pan. Its just behind the block drain spigot. That's where my engine oil is coming from. Start your engine, cover the hole with a simple piece of cardboard and see if specks,or spatters of oil show up. I believe that this is the standard Oil dipstick access for a GM engine ( where the dipstick tube is inserted) On marine engines the use the drain plug port side to attach the dipstick. It's the only thing I can figure out after looking at exploded engine diagram in my manual, no screw fits in that hole since it opens into a chute into oil pan. They must plug it up from the inside but somehow plug has deteriorated. I just figured it all out today in fact after finally tracking down source of oil leak. Took me a few days. I'm gonna just tap it. Hopefully it is your problem too and you can save some bucks. Let me know. Good luck
 

superpop

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Re: SOLVED=> New (to me) boat with oil in the bilge

I just tapped a wooden dowel into the hole you are talking about. If you tap it be sure not to get metal shavings down in the pan or you will have all sorts of problems. I did this 4 years ago and it has been fine.
 
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