possibly Silvertip

pootnic

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There was a post awhile back on trolling motor plugs(i cant seem to find it).Somebody said they found a house hold switch used to plug in their TM.It was something like that,anyways i think you said something to the effect that DC current was different than AC and your using a twist(click)type connector for yours and it worked fine.
I was wondering if a 250V 30 amp AC twist type would work ok for a 50PD trolling motor,I live in a small town and I am having trouble finding a connector that I can hook 8 gauge wire to.I know it has 4 prongs but if I match the right to do you think it would be fine?
Also should I be looking for a 50amp circuit breaker?Like at a car shop?
 

Silvertip

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Re: possibly Silvertip

The electrical department of a Lowes, Home Depot, etc has three wire L5-20 twist lock connectors (male and female). That will work just fine for nearly any trolling motor that requires two or three wires. You don't need a 30A connector and you certainly don't need a four wire. In fact you can use a standard two wire trolling motor plug and receptacle. Splice each side to the battery wires and the troller wires. They are available with 8 gauge stubs on them that you splice to. Four pin, 30A twist locks get a little spendy. you need a 40A breaker or fuse for that motor.
 

pootnic

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Re: possibly Silvertip

thank you for the quick reply

I just mentioned the 4pin connector because it was on the end of the 8 gauge wire a friend of mine gave me.It is alittle big so I'll take a look for the L5-20 plug and a 40amp breaker.

thanks again
 

JB

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Re: possibly Silvertip

8ga. AWG wire is too small. Use at least 6ga.

I don't understand why this obsession with finding plugs/sockets not made for a marine environment when there are very good plugs/sockets made for that exact application. Just asking for trouble.
 

Silvertip

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Re: possibly Silvertip

As soon as the weather breaks and I can get a picture, you will see why it is not necessary to "always" do things using "only" marine equipment.
 

JB

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Re: possibly Silvertip

I agree that it is not always necessary to use products designed for what you are doing, but it is usually the smart thing to do.
 

rndn

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Re: possibly Silvertip

I agree with you JB. I don't know why people try to rig something when they already make a very good product for the application and it's reasonably priced.
 

Silvertip

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Re: possibly Silvertip

As I said -- hang in there. I'll show you why! In business, didn't you learn never to say never and that always is not always true? While I generally agree that if a stock marine product is available that serves its intended purpose by all means use it. The problem with finding creative solutions is that the people trying to find that solution have not spend more than an hour in their lifetime in a hardware, military surplus or home improvement store or on-line for that matter, and in many cases don't know which end of screwdriver to hold and consequently come up with dangerous or impractical solutions. Since neither of you know what I'm going to show you a picture of lets do a little test and see what your solution is.

I have a four-corner fish pontoon. What that means is that it has a swivel seat in all four corners. I've installed a MinnKota PowerDrive V2 trolling motor in the center and the bow gate is configured for clearance over the stowed motor. Here's the question for you. Since the motor is mounted on a quick release plate, the power cable needs to be on a quick disconnect. How would you do it using readily available marine components?

To be fair, here's the boat.

Pontton.jpg
 

rndn

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Re: possibly Silvertip

Silvertip, I can readily appreciate your very unique marine problem which requires a unique not off the shelf solution. That said, my trolling motor plugs into a marine style plug that is mounted to the side of the open bow. The only thing that shows is a covered plate when the unit is not plugged in. I might also suggest using one of these marine rated plug and receptacle.
http://www.iboats.com/Shore_Power/d...ategory--**********.978693596--view_id.216597
 

pootnic

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Re: possibly Silvertip

First I'd like to say this is my third time trying to post showing you that I'm not that bright.
So I'm not commenting on the pontoon;seems to me you know what your doing.
As far as the plugs...when you live in a small town it's hard to find parts, shipping costs almost as much as the parts that makes me think I'm getting taking.I know the marine plugs would probably be the best but alot of motors are used in wet envoirments and they have "splash proof" plugs;I just thought that that would be okay in this type of application.Thats why the question was asked.

I would still like to know why it's okay to use a AC 120V 20amp plug on a 12V DC 40amp circuit.I was thinking an amp was an amp,but it must have something to do with the 120V Ac and the 12V DC and the difference there.I really dont' know but would like too.So if you could tell me where I could read about it or explain it I'd appreciated it.Can't seem to find what I'm looking for on google.
Thanks John
 

JB

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Re: possibly Silvertip

Amps are amps. pootnic. It is not okay to use a 20 amp circuit of any kind to try to carry 40 amps. Fire doesn't respect differences in voltage.

Silvertip, I have not said "always" and I have not said "never". I respect creativity and innovation as much as the next old fart. Pootnic's question should be adequate argument to use what was designed for the task rather than invent a dangerous and inadequate alternate.

On your 'toon I would do what I did on my Whaler. Mount a trolling motor socket near the mount, say on the front of the console, and a plug on the troller wires. I would use Minn Kota's quick disconnect mounting plate, too.
 

Silvertip

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Re: possibly Silvertip

This going to be more fun than I anticipated. Thanks JB and RNDN for actualy going along with this and providing your thoughts on a solution, both of which I also thought of and dismissed. I will also explain why AMPS ain't always the AMPS you are thinking they are.

First, all of the trolling motor plugs and receptacles on iBoats and other sites fall into two categories. 1) they are either panel mounted so the receptacle protrudes in back or 2) they are of the "extension cord" concept. Since there are no compartments up front to mount a receptacle in that solution is not valid unless I was to build something. The extension cord principle is not acceptable (at least to me) since its rolling around on the floor, getting stepped on and as such also not a good solution in this case. Mounting the receptacle on the console is certainly workable but again, you have a very long run of cable laying on the floor to trip over, walk on, and generally abuse.
I will show you my solution in a minute so stand by -- I need to address this AMPS business.

It is generally agreed that P (power or watts) = E (volts) x I (current or amps).

So: 120 Watts = 120V x 1A correct?
It then follows that 120 Watts = 12V x 10A correct?
It also follows that 2400 Watts = 120V x 20A correct again?
So it also follows that 2400 Watts = 12V x 200A.
Did it occur to you by now that we are dealing with a factor of 10 here.
Next time you pick up a replacement switch for an AC applicance check the side of it and you will likely see two ratings. One for 120VAC and another for 12V DC or some other DC value. That switch will be rated for at least a factor 6 times more current DC than AC so there is absolutely no problem running a 55# troller from a L5-20 or even an L5-15 twist lock connector.

Here's my solution: This is two short lengths of 2-inch PVC pipe connected by an elbow. A cap at the bottom is secured to the floor with STAINLESS screws (had to make that perfectly clear) and has a hole in it that carries 6 ga "MARINE CABLE" to the troller battery mounted six feet from the connector. That cable is also protected by plastic conduit below deck above the tube. The receptacle is indeed an L5-15. A cap protects the assembly when not in use. This setup is located about 2 feet from the motor.

Connector1.jpg


Here is the guts of the assembly.

Connector2.jpg


No cables on the floor, it's safe, and just so you know, take a real hard look at the trolling motor twist lock connectors. I think you will agree they have a strong resemblance to the L5-15 and L5-20 twist lock -- except because they are sold in marine stores they get to charge three times as much.

Thanks for playing along.
 

rndn

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Re: possibly Silvertip

That's a really nice solution to your problem Silvertip, you obviously know what you're doing. That said, the same ideas with someone not so well versed could become a dangerous solution, which is what JB stated in his last post. If someone is very knowledgeable in electrical stuff, he/she could save a ton of money coming up with solutions like yours. If they are not knowledgeable and still try these home remedies, they could end up in serious trouble. The poster stated "First I'd like to say this is my third time trying to post showing you that I'm not that bright." So maybe these suggested remedies would not be appropriate for someone lacking in knowledge in electronics and the amp/volts correlation.
 

pootnic

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Re: possibly Silvertip

thanks for the formula
I can see how i works now.

I gave voltage,the gauge wire,the size TM and type of plug wanted to use.Someone answered my question,it was pretty straight forward.

Other replies where to buy the proper marine type plugs,which is perfectly fine and may be the best solution but when the cost of the plugs is $20 and shipping is $22,it kinda stinks.Know remedies where suggested,a question was answered,now if I can just get a longer extension cord so I can troll farther from the house I'd be happy.
 

JB

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Re: possibly Silvertip

Your math and explanation of why a switch/connector can safely carry 10 times as much current if it is from a 12VDC circuit as from a 120VAC circuit is very dangerously flawed, Silvertip.

The voltage rating on such a device has to do with insulation and resistance to arcing. It has nothing to do with the internal resistance or current carrying ability of the device.

The current rating has to do with the resistance of the device itself and the wattage dissipated (heat) when a given amount of current flows. The proper formula to use in evaluating the wattage dissipated by a switch or connector is P=I2R, power (in watts) is equal to current (in amps) squared times the resistance (in ohms) of the device. Voltage rating and voltage applied to the whole circuit are irrelevant in assessing how much current a device can tolerate without melting or catching fire.

Your factor of 10 is incorrect for these purposes, though it would be valid in assessing power dissipated (watts) by the entire circuit, not merely one piece.

Amps are amps, and Ohm's Law prevails. Running 40 or more amps through a 15 or 20 amp rated device is asking for a fire.
 

Silvertip

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Re: possibly Silvertip

Then I suggest you actually take a look at the twist lock connectors being sold for use on trolling motors.

This one was used on my last boat for a 50# Minnkota. It is actually much smaller than an L5-15.

http://www.iboats.com/ConnectPro_Tr....238353--**********.532204517--view_id.166666

This one is also a standard form factor. Look at the price.

http://www.iboats.com/Receptacle_12....238353--**********.532204517--view_id.166688

I will end this by simply suggesting everyone take a long hard look at what the marine industry is selling as "marine" and compare it with the commercial equivalent. In many cases (trolling connectors being just one) we are being ripped.
 
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