The Future of 2 strokes??

[kdmiller8251]

Good Evening IBOATERS....

Ok, this topic probably will generate a lot of discussion. But I am in the process of buying a new boat and motor. I have to decide 2 stroke or 4 Stroke. I know the supposed pros and cons of each.. Does anyone know of the Future of 2 strokes? With tougher EPA laws does anyone know or have an opinon on which is a good bet??


Thanks

T

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

Oh that ticks me off just to think about it . The day that somebody tells me that I can't use my perfectly good running 2 stroke on the lake is the day that I tell them to go take a long walk off of a short pier. I'll build my own d*** lake and dare them to tell me what to do with it.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

I would be more worried about the future of 4-strokes....Evinrude has their futures totally vested in 2-stroke DFI's. Tohatsu, Mercury and Yamaha have dual lines. Suzuki thought 4-strokes were the wave of the future and Honda doesn't know how to build 2-strokes. Actual emission levels are the only thing that is regulated...Not the technology. I really don't see either 2 or 4 stroke going away in the next 20 years.

 

[JB]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

This topic has been exhaustively debated already.

Do a search so we don't have to explain our positions again.

 

[hitace]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

Oh that ticks me off just to think about it . The day that somebody tells me that I can't use my perfectly good running 2 stroke on the lake is the day that I tell them to go take a long walk off of a short pier. I'll build my own d*** lake and dare them to tell me what to do with it.

I here that.diddo.If that person needs some help waling down the short pier I am more then happy to help.

 

[plume85]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

I was under the under standing that in california you can't use 2 strokes in the lakes and river.They dont even make 2 strokes new any more?"might just be the smaller ones"?

 

[tommays]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

marine catalytic converters are a real near future problem

Which are about to go on inboards around 2009 in Calf and everywere at some point in time


When it goes mainstream i fail to see how they can NOT force it on outboards also




Tommays

 

[JB]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

I think DFI 2 strokes will be around for a good while. They are pretty clean, but not as clean or powerful as DFI 4 strokes. Forced induction, DFI 2 strokes burning something other than gasoline and with closed crankcases and pressurized lubrication have some promise, but I don't know of anyone developing such engines.

Gasoline/oil burning carbed 2 strokes may be grandfathered for a while in the smaller sizes, but they will become dinosaurs pretty soon.

Look for new technology to appear soon that will make today's DFI 2 strokes and EFI 4 strokes seem pretty dirty and inefficient.

 

[tommays]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/marinesi-equipld/420f07032.htm#4


Marine Spark-Ignition Engines and Vessels: Spark-ignition engines used in marine vessels, including outboard engines, personal watercraft, and sterndrive/inboard engines.


The proposal also includes new standards to reduce evaporative emissions from these fuel systems.


Some intresting reading about the plans for the future





Tommays

 

[steelespike]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

I think DFI 2 strokes will be around for a good while. They are pretty clean, but not as clean or powerful as DFI 4 strokes. Forced induction, DFI 2 strokes burning something other than gasoline and with closed crankcases and pressurized lubrication have some promise, but I don't know of anyone developing such engines.

Gasoline/oil burning carbed 2 strokes may be grandfathered for a while in the smaller sizes, but they will become dinosaurs pretty soon.

Look for new technology to appear soon that will make today's DFI 2 strokes and EFI 4 strokes seem pretty dirty and inefficient.

From my investigations the Evinrude etec 2 stroke is cleaner than most
if not all 4 strokes and every bit as powerful.As I undertstand it the Etec is the only 2 stroke allowed on lake Tohoe.They have been CARB 3 star rated since day one.

 

[4.0l sahara]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

With new technology like di and computers I think the 2 stroke is here to stay.

2 stroke rules!

 

[4.0l sahara]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

I also wouldn't be surprised if we see a evap system on our gas tanks like in a car in the future.

 

[JB]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

What DFI 4 stroke outboards are you comparing E-tec to, Spike? I don't disagree with you about E-tec vs EFI 4 strokes.

Note the steps forward made by auto DFI 4 strokes. Cleaner and more hp/ci than the best EFI.

 

[kdmiller8251]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

Thanks guys. u raised some good points. I know tahoe banned all 2 strokes. I can only imagine where else will follow. I know a local lake that tried to ban them, but I think it failed as far as I know. I think I will play it safe and go with a 4 now.

ooh yeah JB I tried searching but couldnt find anything on the topic.


T

 

[steelespike]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

Thanks guys. u raised some good points. I know tahoe banned all 2 strokes. I can only imagine where else will follow. I know a local lake that tried to ban them, but I think it failed as far as I know. I think I will play it safe and go with a 4 now.

ooh yeah JB I tried searching but couldnt find anything on the topic.


T

I think my statement may have been miss leading.I think motors that don't meet "CARB" specifications were banned, of course that is all carbed 2 strokes.The Etec 2 stroke is allowed because it meets the highest "CARB" standards.

 

[steelespike]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

What DFI 4 stroke outboards are you comparing E-tec to, Spike? I don't disagree with you about E-tec vs EFI 4 strokes.

Note the steps forward made by auto DFI 4 strokes. Cleaner and more hp/ci than the best EFI.

My standard Subaru Impreza produces 170 hp @ 6,400 rpm from 2.5 lt. about 150 cu. in.The high end WRX turbo gets 305hp.from the same sized block.@17 & 23mpg.
I did a brief check of various Etec and 4 stroke motors.
My unscientific conclusion is the Etec Generally has a better hole shot
and usually top end though there were some exceptions and of course
boat models were not usually exact same models just similar types.
While the 4 strokes generally produced better GPH than the Etec at certain rpm generally the Etec produced more speed and thus comparable or better mpg.MPG was basically a wash.$ strokes tend to be slightly quieter I think that may be a factor of half as many power strokes per minute.
Another thing I noticed:: I think with any outboard Those that are developing the max output
per cu.in. have more efficient gph.ie The Etec 40 tends to be around 4 to 4+gph while the 60
tends to be less than 6 gph most of the time.Sometimes close to 5gph.Same 52.7cu.in block.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

Lake Tahoe banned any engne that does not have a 2 star rating...That means that Mercury, Evinrude, Yamaha and Tohatsu DFI 2-stroke models are all allowed to operate there.

 

[JB]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

VW and GM (at least) have introduced DFI 4 stroke engines on some models.

Compare those specs with similar EFI 4 stroke versions of the same engines. They make more, cleaner power and use less fuel to do it.

DFI 4 strokes are sure to show up in some outboard models and makes. They will be superior to currently available engines of whatever description.

We might even see DFI 4 stroke diesel outboards that use biofuels.

 

[kdmiller8251]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

Biofuels on an o/b... Now that would be sweet! When i get done frying my wings and fish I can convert it to gas!!

 

[JUSTINTIME]

Re: The Future of 2 strokes??

The following engines are still allowed on lakes in the Tahoe Region:

• Direct fuel injection (DFI) two-stroke engines
• Two-stroke engines that meet the California Air Resources Board 2001 or the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) 2006 emissions standard 2 star
• All four stroke personal watercraft engines
• All four stroke gasoline or diesel sterndrive/inboard engines
• All four stroke outboard engines