Pardon me Don S...

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

Oh, & I like my crow with a bit of BBQ sauce.....:redface:​

 

[magster65]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

mmmmm spotted owl, tastes like chicken, not bad with seaturtle egg soup.
Magster
merc is correct, the alphas seawater pump is maxed with a half closed system,it WONT keep up with a ful system at all and may not with a half system, ALL bravo style drives used a belt driven seawater pump thats about 3 times the size of the alpha pumps.
the alpha GEN II pumps were a bit bigger than the older alpha pumps but even they dont tolerate a full closed cooling system well.

I know of a few boats that have full fwc systems (manifolds in) with alphas and they don't have any problems. We have relatively cold ocean temperatures here though... that probably helps quite a bit.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

I didnt say the alpha pumps would not work, just that they dont work as well and dont leave much safty mrgin.
merc ran them for years, but I cant tell you how many I have converted to a belt driven pump and a thru hull pickup.
its not uncommon for the sound here to be in the 80*F or the Gulf stream in the 80* range. occsionally I will see almost 90.
doesnt take much salt scale or sand in the heat exchanger or fuel cooler or oil cooler to start degrading the system, the belt driven pumps have more pressure and volume to aid in this.
but its like I said before, its aftermarket,no known engineering support from mercruiser, run it and see.
I dont know what the ECM is going to react to and neither does anyone else as the mapping specs are not published.
if ya really want fun run a 454 with simply a keel cooler.
did it for years and years.

 

[magster65]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

I didnt say the alpha pumps would not work, just that they dont work as well and dont leave much safty mrgin.
merc ran them for years, but I cant tell you how many I have converted to a belt driven pump and a thru hull pickup.
its not uncommon for the sound here to be in the 80*F or the Gulf stream in the 80* range. occsionally I will see almost 90.
doesnt take much salt scale or sand in the heat exchanger or fuel cooler or oil cooler to start degrading the system, the belt driven pumps have more pressure and volume to aid in this.
but its like I said before, its aftermarket,no known engineering support from mercruiser, run it and see.
I dont know what the ECM is going to react to and neither does anyone else as the mapping specs are not published.
if ya really want fun run a 454 with simply a keel cooler.
did it for years and years.

An ocean temp of 90? Wow! Ours is around 50 I think.
Keel cooler... my uncle had a big ol' fish boat and I remember looking at the keel cooler and thinking it was much too simple to work... haha... it worked great
I wasn't really in a hurry to get this kit installed since I won't be moored for a few months yet... but now I'm too curious to wait!
I'll get started on it this week... that way we can end this thread... it's making me sleepy! ah hahaha

 

[magster65]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

Would've had the kit installed today but... forgot to get a second gasket on the exhaust because of the risers extensions. I ordered them this morning so hopefully tomorrow... just in time... the weather is suppose to be nice all weekend.
I haven't had an all day boat ride in about a year... I'm sooooooooo due!

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

One thing ya'all failed to mention, running rich, at any temp, washes down the cyllinider walls, shortens the service life of rings, pistons, oil, bearings.

How can you even begin to compare a $1500 ECU to the price of a rebuild?

Granted, it WILL run, the question you really should be asking is, how well, how long, and how much is it really going to cost to fix it, again, correctly?

Pay me now, OR, pay me later, either way you are going to pay, now is usually a lot cheaper in the long run.

 

[QC]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

Y'all are still not understanding that Mags is gonna run the raw water thermostat, hence she will run at the same temp as the ECU is currently prgrammed for . . . maybe a couple of degrees warmer, but probably not even that . . .

 

[Broesder]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

Hello,
I will go in the summer for three weeks to the see with a brand new Bayliner 195 with 4,3 merc. Do I need for the three weeks in salt water a closed cooling system?

Peter

 

[magster65]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

OK... the kit is installed. It took about 7 hours including a long lunch and another trip to get anti-freeze. There's a bracket to modify for the drive oil reservoir and the coolant overflow container won't fit on the motor so it lives on the bulkhead instead. It runs at 162 degrees on the flush-muffs... exactly what it did before.
Now the sea trial... of course it's pouring rain today!

 

[Don S]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

What it does on muffs and what it does in the water under load is 2 different things. My bet is you will see between 175? and 180? under load, where it really counts.

 

[magster65]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

I know I know... the bilge... I'll clean it up...

fyi... my son's name is Joey

 

[magster65]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

Why does it have to be raining... WHY?!

 

[magster65]

Re: Sea trial

Re: Sea trial

Update:
Sea trial today. It runs at 170 at wot... a 5 degree increase.
I'm happy about that however... it wasn't a 100% successful trip.
After the initial 'putt around' and checking levels n' stuff I cruised about a 1/2 hour at 3500 rpm... everything was fine. I slowed down to an idle and the temp went up to 190 and then back down to 170. It did this a couple times then got 'better'. When it fluctuates the guage moves fairly quickly so my guess is it's to do with the sensor or trapped air by it. The kit required the sensor to be moved from the t-stat housing to a tee off the manifold beside it. I'm gonna put a bleeder on it and see if that helps. Something else, does anyone know what the water pressure should be on the raw water / pickup side?
Thanks.

 

[Coors]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

some one added one- I think it was 12-15 psi.

 

[QC]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

I, for one, do not believe that the engine will run significantly hotter with the closed cooling combined with the raw thermostat. Maybe 3 degrees, maybe 5.

I'm headin' to Vegas . . .

On the air bubble thought, don't air pockets typically cause a gauge to react slower? That was our old story in the Caterpillar truck engine biz . . .

 

[magster65]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

Thanks Coors.
QC... you must have crystal balls huh'? haha
So I had another look at the 'whole' thing. The sensor is on a tee but it has the manifold line to the h/w tank on it too... it probably isn't air-locked. Upon closer inspection we had the inlet/outlet backwards on that h/w tank... oops. Maybe having had it reversed wasn't allowing it to flow enough coolant at an idle? I had a look at raw water impeller... it was probably still working ok but it had some scars. I put a new one in it.
It ran up fine on the muffs... time for another sea trial.
Now the weather's gone bad again

 

[QC]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

QC... you must have crystal balls huh'? haha

That's what Mrs. QC says . . .

 

[magster65]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

Well... the sea trial was marginal once again. The boat warms up fine. The 'get up and go' is great... I can run at wot without a problem but when I slow down the temp goes up... and then back down. If I just putt around it's fine. I wouldn't worry about it but my 'overheat' alarm is at 190 and it goes to 195 before it drops back down to 170. The up/down temp change is about 30 seconds in duration and a little throttle makes it quicker.
I have to wonder... the stock sensor placement is on the t-stat housing and the kit requires the sensors relocated to the 'bypass' port of the intake (where a cars heater core would be). That's fine but the boat has a hot water heater in that loop and I'm thinking it may not flow for a bit on slow-down? I can make a new housing that'll incorperate the sensors... I'm leaning that way... have I missed anything?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

its called heat soak
its also not helped by the stock alpha seawater pump.
while not every boat does it its rather common to see on freshwater cooled boats.
Diesels will do it as well and its why they reccomend an idle period to stabilize egine temps before shut down.
you will find a belt driven seawater pump and a through hull pick up will cure most of it, however as long as you keep the stock alpha setup in top notch shape it will work with no worries.
that setup has a lot of heat built up during the 3500 RPM plus range then is suddenly dropped to idle.
at idle not only does the engine circ pump slow down but so does the pressure from the seawater pump. takes a min or two for the liquid to liquid HE setup to catch back up.
most cars will do the same, shut off the engine and imediatly turn the key back on and you will see the temp climb with the engine off for a few minutes.
190* is still within the operational limits of the 5.7.

 

[newport dave]

Re: Pardon me Don S...

I was surprised they have you mount the sensors out on a "T" like that. I would have a hard time trusting what they were reading was accurate.