iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

[Ranger 330V]

I read iwombats faq about adding a pee hole to our engines and it got me to thinking. I have a 140 V4...so I have two thermostats. I am going to do his change up to move the pee hole to the top of the head...but I was thinking about that I thought what if I tapped both heads and added two temp gauges. One port and one starboard. and run the pee tube up and over the head to keep air out. That way if one bank started to run hot I would know. I run a bass hull and I'm always turning to look at the pee stream...guess its a habit...lol. So I don't worry about water psi so much I also change impellor every two years. I was just thinking if a t-stat went south this way I would know, also if my pump started to get a little weak I would notice a slight change in temp. I was wondering if anyone hear had done that or thought about it. Do you guys think it would be a good idea to try?? I know the water psi gauge is nearly a must for everyone and i know there is a beeper that should go off if you get hot but I'd like to know before the beeper goes off if I'm getting warm and I've had t-stats in trucks go bad and like the insurance of shutting down and investigating before I get hot enough for the beeper to go off. Just wondering your thoughts. Thanks!!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

i believe, you could do temp guage with the bolt on temp sensor, mounts on one of the head bolts. i also like the idea of 2 pressure sensors, now that you mention it. it would be a lot of gauges to house.

 

[ezeke]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

Since your 78 engine should already have a tell-tale installed off the exhaust cover, you can accomplish the same thing by simply installing a longer hose, running to the top of the engine and back down to the outlet. The purpose of going high on the engine is just to keep the air from getting into the cooling circuit. The commercial engines used the re-routed hose well into the eighties.

I certainly agree with Tashasdaddy on the surface mount temperature senders. The stock kits are designed for that, no drilling needed or wanted.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

Ditto. Plus if you want to tap into the water jacket at the top to eliminate trapped air you'll tap into the block, not the heads.

 

[iwombat]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

Also, the tell-tale is in the circuit BEFORE the t-stats. All that adding two is going to tell you is if there's blockage between the port and starboard side.

 

[Ranger 330V]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

Dhadley, yeah the block not the heads...I misinterpreted that one...lol. Will you get a good reading on the bolt senders?? I just like the idea of having one on each bank. I have plenty of room for the gauges in the plate I made for my ranger. We have a plasma cutter on a cad machine... ) makes bezels very easy to make..lol. eze...I am going to route the hose over the head but want to watch my temps...where do you get those gauges at?? who makes them?? I wish I could find a couple of senders that would replace the beeper senders...that would be ideal. If I only had one stat on this engine it wouldn't bother me...but with the two I just want some added insurance...lol. Guess I could run two pee holes...lol. That would be an interesting looking thing...could tell people it was a performance mod..lol.

 

[Ranger 330V]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

iwombat, yeah your right...didn't think about that one...so would the two temp gauges not be of any use?? Why then do we have two stats?? I don't have my manual right now to see the circuit...I can't remember the picture of the cooling system.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

you can run one gauge with two senders but you would need to switch manually between the two as shown in the following diagram.

There are two types of temp senders. One type screws into a port that is open to the water jacket like the Merc shown below.

Then there is the contact or cylinder heat temp sender shown below.

Either type will work but whatever sender you use it must match the gauge. And just so you know, automotive temp gauges are no good on an outboard as they are calibrated too hot on the low end of the scale so the needle would barely register.

Lastly, a water pressure gauge is cheap, easy to install and a far better indicator of water pump function than the tell-tale. If have the audible warning, temp gauge, and water pressure so overheat or water pump issues are monitored closely.

 

[iwombat]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

The two senders would be of use. It'd tell you if a stat was stuck open or closed. As for the pee-holes - they don't tap much of the pressure out of the system, so t-stats open or closed they flow about the same.

The way the water jackets work is the pump pressurizes the water jackets far more than the t-stats can ever flow out. i.e. there's always lots of positive pressure. The tell-tale just vents some of that positive pressure for a visual indicator. The only way you'd not get water out of both tell-tales (if that's what you were to do) is if there was a restriction between bank one and two.

 

[ezeke]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

Iboats sells the Teleflex temperature gauge kits. The OMC/BRP kits from dealers are good.

The Teleflex instructions show the Z bracket for surface connecting on page 3 at the bottom:

http://ww2.tflx.com/PDF/99625.pdf

Call the iboats marine store when ordering so that you are sure to get the kit with the sender and bracket.

 

[Ranger 330V]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

yeah I figured that about the automotive types..they start to register around 160 I think...we need to be around 140 don't we?? actually below that I think. I have the faria sahara gauges installed....maybe I can find some of those. I'll look at the teleflex units...I like the idea of supporting the website also. where would be the best place to install the surface type senders?? I would think in between the cylinders. From what you guys said I think I'll try to go with surface temp gauges, and tap the water psi gauge into the top of the block and put the pee hose over the cylinder head, will the gauge tap help keep air pockets out? what about a tee in it so I get the water psi and pee hole up there? will that effect my psi very much for the gauge function?? wouldn't think so as strong as the pee stream is...does the other bank not ever get air pockets in it??

 

[Ranger 330V]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

silvertip...I really like the idea of the switch...wonder if you could make the switch automatically go between the two?? We have a switch like that on our school bus gauges...they will cycle between three gauges. To bad no one makes a two bank temp gauge...one with two needles...I've seen auto gauges like the for boost and EGT on diesels. Thanks for you info...it's great!!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

I suspect one could rig a timer module to a relay and have it cycle every 30 seconds or so. Radio Shack is always a good place to look for that stuff. If you have a military surplus store in your area that's also a good place to look. As for the relay, any inexpensive 12V relay will do the job the job. Just so you know, twin engine gauges are available. Doesn't make any difference that you are measuring two sides of a "V" engine rather than two engines. The auto-switching is something I've thought briefly about before and now that I know there is more than one person interested, I'll do some snooping and see if I can come up with something. Auto temp gauges start at around 120 degrees. My marine temp gauge starts at 60 degrees. Most newer Teleflex gauges are calibrated C-N-H so they really don't give you an exact temp reading but they do alert you to a problem in the making and that's all one needs.

 

[Ranger 330V]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

Silver...yeah I'm interested...I didn't think of the two engine gauges...I think that would be the way to go...do some snooping. A switch would be nice also...that may be a bit cheaper than the two engine gauge. I just like the idea of being able to watch both banks. The gauges with the c-n-h i have never liked...they rank right up there with idiot lights...I like numbers and gauges. lol. I'm going to check on some dual engine gauges...that sounds really good to me.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

I just came out of my library (bathroom) and had a brainstorm while I was in there. (Guess that indicates how I think!!) There are a couple of live well timers on the market that when coupled with a cheap relay would perform the switching function nicely. You need an adjustable timer though so you can set the ON/OFF times. Just some more to think about but this would be the quick way to go. Check for a private message in a few minutes.

 

[Ranger 330V]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

okay from what I've seen the min temp on the cylinder head gauges are around 20 degrees cooler than most of the water temp gauges...how much of a difference in water temp and cylinder head temp should we see?? If I remember right the tstats open at 142 degrees...is this right?? so should we see a normal operating temp of around 130 or so?? I would figure the head would be a bit cooler than the actual water temp. I'm going to go with silvers setup...letting the temp cycle will be the way to go...and will leave the hole open for my water psi gauge. I think this is going to be the way to go and will give alot of added insurance for your engines cooling system.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

Either style of sender will work fine and on a long run, cylinder head temp and water temp will be pretty close. It's just that the gauge and sender need to be matched. The low end on my gauge is 60 degrees so it goes off the peg the minute the engine starts as ambient temp in the summer is generally higher than that. At idle and up to about 2000 rpm the temp should run around 140 since the thermostat is controlling the water temp. Once the engine begins to rev higher than that, the bypass valve opens and a lot more water passes through the engine so temp drops a little.

 

[Ranger 330V]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

I'm having trouble finding an extra sender...VDO has one but its not the same range as the marine. Where have you guys found these?? I have found plenty of gauges that come with a sender...just having trouble finding another sender.

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

There is a gentlman on a forum that has good advice He says K.I.S.S.don"t mean to be rude. But in this case he is right. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

 

[ezeke]

Re: iwombat made me think...what do you guys think??

As someone said, the sender has to match the gauge and whoever sells you the gauge will know which extra sender to use.

If you mix them up they won't work right, but here is a link:

http://www.iboats.com/Marine_Store/dm/*******.527059693--**********.442083137--search_in_category.f--current_category.sender--submit.x.24--keywords.temperature%20sender--category_id.--submit.y.7--search_type.keyword