Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

gordond

Cadet
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
24
Hi, as a newbie to boating I have a few questions.

What is WOT? I have seen this in a few posts.

Is it a good idea to go to a 4 blade prop? We like to wakeboard and tube. We will be looking at the prop this week to see the pitch and size.

Here is the biggie, the boat doesn't ride level. We need to put extra people to one side. Also at slow speeds the steering is very loose. You have to crank the wheel at least 1/2 a turn each way just to keep it straight.

Thank you for any helpful advice
G
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri


Welcome to iboats......:)
First, WOT means Wide Open Throttle.....
Second, we need to know what engine/drive we are going to discuss.....
Lots of things an contribute to leaning on plane, but most common is unequal weight placement, esp on a small, light boat......;)
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

Also prop torque makes most single screw boats list to port. What way does she list? Different at different speeds? Does she list when sitting in the water empty, at rest?

Is the steering "loose" when the boat is on plane? This is probably what we commonly call low speed wander, if so it is entirely normal.
 

gordond

Cadet
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
24
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

The engine is a 3.0 liter Volvo[?] with OMC Stern drive.

It does not list [lean] when sitting. At higher speeds it lists to the port or in laymans term the left side is lower.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

And what Haut said too . . . ;) The only fix is to have more weight on the Starboard side to counteract the torque, orrrrrrr install helm adjustable trim tabs . . .
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Aug 31, 2004
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62,321
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

Moving to boat topics and questions
 

mike176

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
202
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

My boat will list if its not trimed out on plane, try triming it up more when you start to plane-out.
 

ziggy

Admiral
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
7,473
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

My boat will list if its not trimed out on plane, try triming it up more when you start to plane-out.
i'll second that too.....my boat don't exactly list. but triming up sure makes it feel a lot more flat and level. has much less v hull roll to it........
 

chick92064

Seaman
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
57
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

I have a similar problem and am not new to boating, but to go along with what I've read on this thread, I'll list the basics. I have a 1989 Mach 1 Challenger Cuddy Cabin (MV1900CC) It has a brand new Mercruiser Vortec 4.3 Litre (262CID) V6 engine in it. That's another story for another day. The outdrive is an early Alpha I (there's only three anodes- two acorns a bottom plate and the trim tab) The trim tab is adjusted slighly to starboard and the boat steers lightly and easily at high speed with the engine trimmed out. It also steers well at slow speeds. Mid range (about 3,000 RPMs) with no trim in the lower unit it leans hard to port- - enough so as to make seasoned boaters more than slightly nervous. The prop is a 14x20 from Mercury Marine. The boat weighs 2700lbs empty give or take so we're talking about 3,500lbs with a full tank of ful, gear and 5 adults. Once I trim up the lower unit the list goes away and the boat rides level regardless of where my passengers sit. At WOT with full trim running about 4600 RPM I can basically let people roam around the boat, kids climb in and out of the cuddy - - whatever. At 3000 RPM's with no trim, it's like being on a sailboat where everyone needs to hang over the starboard side to keep the boat from rolling over. The boat is well up on plane but will not lose the list. As I said, once I trim it up, the list disappears.

I am as perplexed as the new member who began this thread and I have a lifetime of boating experience as I grew up around boats here on Sebago Lake in Maine.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

"The boat is well up on plane but will not lose the list. As I said, once I trim it up, the list disappears. "

so what else do you need to know?

I don't know boats but I know aerodynamics enough to say in airplanes its termed P factor when the plane is climbing and starts to yaw (list),
reason is the ascending blade had a greater angle of attack then the descending blade and will cause that same type of yaw in a climb out.

Your angle of attack can be changed by trimming, its the same thing.

Boats require trimming the same way airplanes do, its an active ongoing routine whether flying or boating.
 

chick92064

Seaman
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
57
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

jonesg
I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but I believe there has to be an answer to this question. I have owned a variety of boats. A 14' Montgomery Ward with a 40hp Johnson Outboard. a 19ft Corson with a 150hp Mariner outboard, an 18ft Larson bowrider with a 4.3L V6, a 21ft Celebrity bowrider with a 5.7L V8 and now this Mach 1. None of them ever listed at any speed. They all had a level attitude in water irregardless of speed, trim etc etc. This is the 1st time I've experienced this issue. Common sense as well as basic physics tells me there is a cause where there is an effect. I mean no disrespect, but I believe this problem has a solution. We simply have not gotten the question to the person with the answer. I enjoy this forum and read more than I post. I have great respect for the opinions and advice of it's membership. Perhaps you could put a "sticky" on this topic to give it more visability ?
The only thing I can think of (that I failed to mention in my 1st post on the subject) is that this boat has a "dolphin" attached to the lower unit. The reason for this became apparent while swapping out engines. The previous owner had been scammed by a local shop on a rebuild and had a straight automobile Buick V6 dropped into his boat while he paid for a rebuild on his original Mercruiser. (The serial numbers on the engine did not match what the boat had in it's paperwork) The auto engine in addition to a host of other non marine equipment would not have had cam enough to get the boat up on plane quickly enough so he put the dolphin on it. At this point, with a new Mercruiser rated at 190hp I am going to pull the dolphin and see if that corrects the problem. I believe with a heavy boat and a full load of passengers and gear there is a lot of lateral stress on the dolphin at certain speeds and it flexes causing this issue. I will report later if my guess is correct. In the interim, I would ask gordond if he also has a dolphin on his lower unit.
 
Last edited:

chilly1

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
42
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

It seems to me that your prop is putting out enough force to lift hull past plane, and it tips to heaviest side because it cannot support hull out of water. Trimming changes climb/thrust more fully to thrust, and hull settles on plane.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
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Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

Chick;
There is no complicated issue here, and it has been addressed many times. With any "V" hull boat the tendency to list to port when cruising on plane is possible. It is more likely when the bow is too far down as this drives the most severe part of the "V" into the water. Like a teeter totter the boat will be riding on the keel and any side to side force will push it over to one side (list). The prop torque (resistance of the prop as it rotate in the water) will be opposite the rotation of the prop. Since the prop rotates clockwise the boat tries to unwind counter clockwise (list to port).

Trimming the motor out to a more vertical position will bring the bow up and allow the boat to ride more toward the back where the "V" is more shallow. This provides more resistance to the prop torque. Remember that the transom is angled (when looking at it from the side) about 10 to 12 degrees so that the motor can be "trimmed" (tilted) down under the boat to help the prop lift the stern when accelerating to plane.

This does not mean that the motor trim should remain in this position, and in fact this is the least efficient position. The propeller should be perpendicular to the surface of the water.

When a hydrofoil (doel-fin) is used to assist the boat to plain it does so by creating more running surface to lift the stern (like a single trim tab in the center of the hull). This has some effect which is dependent on size. However, because of the wing shape and the fact that it is fixed (not flexible) it increases the lift more and more as the speed of the boat increases.

This extra lift will raise the stern and push the bow down, and in addition to the motor trim (when in the down position) you end up with two devices pushing the bow in the water.

The results are what you would expect -
1) Since the boat is now riding on the most severe part of the "V" the tendency to list to port is more (causes a torque list).
2) The top speed is inhibited
3) The boat lays over too much in turns
4) Fuel economy is reduced
5) the ride is uncomfortable

Solution -

1) remove the hydrofoil
2) trim the motor out

A) If the boat does not plane easily, add trim tabs.
B) If the boat porpoises when trimmed out, add trim tabs

Trim tabs become an extension of the hull which can be adjusted (or self adjust) to change the hull design and compensate for the various conditions (speed, attitude, load, etc.) Because they are not fixed the issues of listing, incorrect running attitude, and handling are avoided. They expand the efficiency of the hull.
 

chick92064

Seaman
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
57
Re: Unlevel plane on 1989 Bayliner Capri

Jdeagro
Thanks for the lesson in hydroponics. I appreciate knowing the science of the issue and also I had suspected the the doel-fin was not needed. I will remove it as soon as we get a decent day (it's been rain, rain, rain this summah) I had suspected it impacted top speed but did not know it also impacted fuel economy. One of the reasons I'm in a boat with a 4.3L V6 vice a 5.7 V8 is the cost of fuel. I sold the Celebrity mentioned in a previous post last spring before buying this Mach 1.

Great response, thanks again
 
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