Tilt and Trim Help!!!

[baileyrd]

Ok, so I am trying to figure somethings out to ensure that my tilt and trim is working and wired correctly.

First is I have the Seloc book and the Clymer book, and I know that might motor is the Presolite version. It's an Arco replacement but I am not sure of the model number. In one of the wiring diagrams it shows the tnt straight wired without relays or solenoids and in others it shows one or the other the problem is it doesn't say which is for the one I have. I was told the boat when I bought it was a 1980 Bumblebee with a 75HP Johnson Stinger. I could really use some help with this.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

Is that the older type PTT that has the lift rams outside of the engine transom brackets OR is the complete PTT assembly between the transom brackets?

Also, you say "the tnt straight wired without relays or solenoids and in others it shows one or the other".

That's sort of confusing. Does that engine have a plastic rectangular box connected to the powerhead that has the relays installed inside of it?

 

[guy74]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

First, tell me how many wires you have going to the T&T motor. A later model T&T like my 1988 60hp has uses a 2 wire single-wound DC motor that the relays simply reverse the polarity to change direction. The T&T on my friend's 1976 115hp Evinrude uses a 3 wire double-wound DC motor. It had one wire that went to ground, when you energized on of the remaining wires the motor ran one way, then if you energize the other wire it ran the other way. I'll see if I can find some drawings or I'll try to lay it out for you if I need to.

 

[baileyrd]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

It's a 3-wire, the lift rams are outside the transom brackets.

I guess the confusing part in the books is they show several different wiring diagrams but the don't really say which is for what.

 

[guy74]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

Did you have any luck finding a diagram? Is this a new installation, or do you have anything to go on. I havn't been able to find a wiring diagram that includes the T&T. I know that the black wire goes to ground, green wire to positive to go down, blue wire to positive to go up on the one I work on. I think you should use relays to switch the wires, also it would be a bad thing to energize the green and blue at the same time.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

This should help, i am sort of confused as to what is wrong though. Any more help let me know. Gl

 

[baileyrd]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

Thanks High Trim I have that one in the book but I don't have a sending unit so I wasn't sure that it applied. The other thing bout the picture is I am not sure where that wiring block is supposed to be found out cause I know I don't currently have one on my boat, but it looks like it is inside of some kind of box. I am just trying to be sure I have my PTT wired correctly. (Cause I don't think it is.)

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

If you have a 3 wire setup, you should have that box. What it is is a junction box for the solenoid. Trace your wiring back from the trim motor, where does it go?? Follow it closely and try to find your junction box. It will probably have a screw down top on it. Inside will be some wiring and terminals with a silver cylinder in the middle, that is your solenoid. There will also be a 20 amp inline fuse in it. Does your TNT unit work ok?? what are the problems?

 

[baileyrd]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

It is a 3 wire system. I bought it used and the guy told me it may not be wired right. When I got it, it had a junction plug that was melted out and a solenoid, but the PTT didn't work. I check the voltage and noticed that power came down the green and blue whenever you hit the switch so I wired those straight without the solenoid, after I had tried making it a 2 solenoid system. It works but I don't think it's right and I don't want to burn anything up from bad wiring. Would I be able to purchase that box, somewhere?

 

[baileyrd]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

Also I don't even see wires for a sending unit or know what it does. is that incorporated int the Presolite? Sorry for the ignorance but I'm ignorant.

 

[guy74]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

I think if you have it wired with two relays it would be as good or better than the way it was originally. Looking at the wiring diagram, the switch in the handle carries the full current to the motor going down, only has a relay for triming up. In my opinion your setup with two relays handling the current to the motor is better.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

I believe that you'll find that the relay setup will not work with that three wire electric motor.

The down mode is a straight connection BUT the up mode will require the solenoid setup.

 

[guy74]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

I'd like to know why the two relay system wouldn't work as long as the relays are rated for enough load. Might keep you from having to replace the switch in the handle at some point, because the switch would carry no load. If a person wants to get technical, that is a relay in the factory setup. All it does is switch current. Just because the factory engineers didn't have a relay for both directions doesn't mean that they shouldn't of, it was probably a cost cutting move. Not better engineering.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

The 2 relay system will work with a 2 wire motor. A single relay will work in place of the single solenoid on the 3 wire motor if the relay has enough capacity. I'd have to check but I don't think it does. The solenoid is a very simple way to handle the current for the up mode. The down mode of the 3 wire motor doesn't have a lot of load so the straight wiring will work, no need for a solenoid or a relay.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

In addition to Dhadley's usual on target advice.......

The two (2) wire electric motor, that incorporates the relay setup, is a dual polarity electric motor, meaning that attaching the two (2) battery cable to both of the electric motor's wires will cause the motor to run in one direction. Reversing those battery wires cause the motor to run in the opposite direction.

The three wire moton on the other hand must have the negative wire of the battery connected to the black ground wire of the electric motor. The positive wire must be connected to either the Blue or Green wire of the electric motor to have it run in one direction or the other.

You can use the dual relay setup simply by installing the two (2) wire electric motor of course.

I've never incorporated the single relay for the up mode of the three (3) wire electric motor as I've always used the original solenoid setup, but if Dhadley says it works, then I'm sure it does.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

edit

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

I was going to say I'd never used a 3 wire motor with 2 relays, that it was all in theory. Then I remembered I have used 2 relays in a 3 wire system, forgot all about that. We put a Cobra trim pump motor on a 92 225 (race motor) because it was faster. The Cobra motor was a 3 wire and all we did was cut the "communication" wire between the 2 relays. The relays worked fine.

In the case of this older unit, the single solenoid (for up) with the 3 wire motor is so simple it'd be hard to not use it. The down side doesn't require either a relay or a solenoid. Hard to be simpler than straight wiring.

I'm not sure if there is a 2 wire motor for this older trim. If anybody would know it'd be Arco.

 

[guy74]

Re: Tilt and Trim Help!!!

I don't think that he was talking about using a two relay box off a two wire motor, just using two relays to switch the power to the blue and green wires. Not sure if it is the same T&T motor, but on the only three wire setup I've worked on we, bypassed the circuit breaker in the T&T motor and used a 20 amp inline in the black wire to do the same job. The 20amp breaker has never tripped so it must not have too big of a load for common 30 amp relays. Just my $.02