Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

[rfwoodvt]

Hi!

I picked up a 1974 Sea Ray CRV220 with a Mercruiser 888 package last fall for restore. It has the Ford 188hp 302 v8 and (according to my clymer manual) a Mercruiser Model I outdrive.

Long story short: Water was getting into the oilpan so I opened her up, pulled the heads and found one cylinder had a big hole in the Cyl Wall into the water jacket. Didn't really look any farther.

Thots on how this may have occurred?

So, I want to replace the engine. Here are my questions:

• I see a lot of Ford 302 blocks online for 1975 and newer. Will any these mate to my bell housing?
• What range of motor years should mate to this housing?
• I see very few listings online for 888 outdrives but a lot for Alpha -1 and Generation-1 out drives. Since clymer calls this a Model-I drive are these just different ways of naming the same outdrives?
• Any idea what years and outdrive models will fit the transom hole or mounting plates for the 888?
• can a ford automobile block be used if I put in brass freeze plugs and use the marine cam and parts from my old motor?
• anyone know of a good used or rebuilt ford engine to fit this beast?

I know it is probably better to look for a different boat, but this is likely to be the last boat I will ever be able to have and even replacing the outdrive and motor still make it the least expensive boat I have looked at. Besides I've waited derned near 15 years to get another boat and well, this is my best shot at it.

All help will be greatly appreciated!

Regards!

Rick

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Any 302/5.0 will bolt right up, unlike chevs, they will bolt up from beginning til their end, in 2001. Last year I got a 2001 Ford Explorer 5.0 roller cam motor to replace my stolen '75 302. (had it out of the boat) Fortunately, I had all my peripherals safely in the garage. So I just bolted them on and rocketed down the lake.

It was a salvage yard motor, had 35k on it and I paid 900$ for it. I stripped off the fuel injection, got the appropriate dia and balance flywheel, and proper damper, installed an Edelbrock 2121 Performer intake with a Holley 600 cfm marine carb and changed the cam. Otherwise, I never had to open the engine up. That motor has so much more power than my original that it scares me. It just blows the old 188-190 hp 302 outda water.

The advantage of the later roller cam motor is that, well it is a roller cam, it is one point higher compression (than the 888) AND it has Fords latest greatest, best breathing, most efficient cylinder heads.

Any other engine you might come across will do, you want to put in a marine cam (probably use what you aready have. Install brass freeze plugs then hang all of your peripherals on it.

Either way, your dealing with an easy to find motor that won't cause you any headaches trying to fit it in.

If you were real bold and had a little extra room, you could strap on a 351 Windsor. It's two inches wider and two inches higher, otherwise it would drop right in. The only issue you would have is connecting your risor bellows to the Y pipe, but I'm sure that's easily done.

Your outdrive is the "pre Alpha" Merc 1. It was the mainstay until the mid 80's? Early Alpha's will bolt up if you needed to switch but the Merc 1 will take anything up to the 351.

 

[rfwoodvt]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

thanX BoomYal!

that was great help.

I have found two possible motors. I have a couple of questions, though, mostly around what marine parts I need to install on the used motor. Basically I need to put on the seawater pump, starter, alternator, fuel pump, intake manifold, camshaft and exhaust manifold.

How critical is it to change the head gaskets and freeze plugs to the marine variety?

and if I need new headgaskets and freeze plugs does it make sense to use my old marine heads (or should I stick with the newer ones?)

Of course once the heads are off then I should have a valve job done right?!

thanX again! I appreciate your help on this!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

thanX BoomYal!

that was great help.

I have found two possible motors. I have a couple of questions, though, mostly around what marine parts I need to install on the used motor. Basically I need to put on the seawater pump, starter, alternator, fuel pump, intake manifold, camshaft and exhaust manifold. Yes! Plus your marine distrib.

How critical is it to change the head gaskets and freeze plugs to the marine variety? Automotive freeze plugs are steel and expected to run in antifreeze. They won't hold up in a marine environment, hence brass/bronze plugs. Automotive head gasket is a similar situation. Marine head gaskets have a stainless steel compression ring.

and if I need new headgaskets and freeze plugs does it make sense to use my old marine heads (or should I stick with the newer ones?) On the heads, it really depends on what your 'new' motor has. I believe the '74 888 heads may have had bigger valves than some later 302 heads. They were, infact, 351 heads that were Ford factory drilled for the smaller dia 302 head bolts (7/16 vs 1/2")

Of course once the heads are off then I should have a valve job done right?! If you do use the original heads, t'would probably be a great idea at this juncture.

thanX again! I appreciate your help on this!

Exactly what motors are you looking at? I might have some suggestions depending on what they are. Also, depending on the year, there could be other considerations such as flywheel, front damper and cam that might not work from your original engine.

 

[rfwoodvt]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Hi BoomYal!

one engine is unknown year...have to go look at it. The other is out of a 1996 f150.

I didn't mention the flywheel, damper or distributor, but they are on my list.

What problems would I have with the cam? Just not fit or other serious problems?

ThanX again, I really appreciate this!

Rick

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Hi BoomYal!

one engine is unknown year...have to go look at it. The other is out of a 1996 f150.

I didn't mention the flywheel, damper or distributor, but they are on my list.

What problems would I have with the cam? It's a roller cam. Your flat tappet cam wont fit. But that is good, roller cams are better. you're just going to have to pull it and send it to Delta Cam for a marine grind. You want their hottest 351 firing order MARINE grind. Had it a been an older carbureted truck motor you could have used either the OEM truck cam or best, stuck in your flat tappet OMC cam. Just not fit or other serious problems?

ThanX again, I really appreciate this!

Also, the '96 being the later roller cam block, the went to what they call a 50 oz external balance. That means the flywheel and damper off your 190hp (28 oz balance) won't work. They'd fit but the engine would shake like crazy.

Ford also made two different size flywheels. The 888 takes the small one but Ford did not make a small 50 oz balance flywheel or a 50 oz frt balancer that will accept all your pulleys. But fear not. The hot rodders love these 302/5.0's so much that just about every conceivable option has been made in the aftermarket. If you end up getting that motor, I can give you the info nec to obtain them. I think the two of them were less then 150$

Where are you located? Every one should include that in their profile. It often helps suggest vendors if people know where you are. They ought to make it mandatory. Sorry! A pet pieve of mine.

 

[rfwoodvt]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Again I am here!

OK, I am in Vermont, hope that helps.

As for the other motor it is a late 70's early 80's. and has about 60k miles on it. They are checking into it for a more specific date of MFG.

The 96 I think has 90k miles. From what you told me thus far, it seems that the 96 is a better engine option, but will require a bunch more work, $$$ and time to get together before getting the boat on the water.

How much of a plug and play would that older engine be?

ThanX!

Rick

 

[Coors]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Boom, stop slobbering when some one gets a 302.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Boom, stop slobbering when some one gets a 302.

Can't hep it, they're rad!

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

I used to kill so many 302's in my little Larson (the fastest Pinto on the Bay)I was going to paint little motors on the side of my boat like fighter pilots do on their planes for "kills". Of course I built them bad ***** with no thought but how much speed I could get out of one but that got old around the 5th or 6th, 7th .....time. So I finally built a 351W for it (I also had a model1 drive and still do stored away) and was never happier. Something about that longer stroke....
I ran the boat for another year, hard. Then hit something at WOT that about through the boat over. I have no clue what it was. I was taking on water so fast after that there wasn't no time to go back and look for it. Totally wrecked the hull so it went to the landfill, the motor was sold to a friend of a friend and went into a tow truck and I kept the drive.
That was almost 8 years ago. The motor is still in the tow truck and going strong and the drive......I really need to get to selling that drive.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Again I am here!

OK, I am in Vermont, hope that helps. Ooh, way out there!

As for the other motor it is a late 70's early 80's. and has about 60k miles on it. uh huh! What? it been sittin in a barn all this time? They are checking into it for a more specific date of MFG.

The 96 I think has 90k miles. From what you told me thus far, it seems that the 96 is a better engine option, Yep but will require a bunch more work, $$$ and time to get together before getting the boat on the water. Not necessarily more time, just a 'few dollars more'
How much of a plug and play would that older engine be? Depends a bit. What did it come out of? You still might have to change the cam and if it has an EGR 2 bbl intake, you'd want to swap it for your 888 intake. 70's and non roller early eighties engines should be a 28 oz balance motor so your frt damper and flywheel would work. If the vehicle had been a stick shift, used the smaller diameter flywheel and the starter teeth were good, you could leave it. If it was an automatic, it'd have a flex plate and you'd need to dump that
ThanX!

Rick

ps, if you have to swap cams, you absolutely need to swap lifters too.(or buy new ones, good ones with appropriate assembly lube) And you want to make darn sure you do not mix up the order of the lifters as they come out of you 888 and go into the new engine. In the case of the later roller cam motor, you can reuse the roller lifters with a new cam.

 

[Coors]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

I took apart a 302 for a buddy, it was the same problem- hole in the side of #2 cylinder. About the size of 2 50 cent pieces. Are they thin-wall castings? I do think he ran it too hot, as he wanted me to check head gaskets. But no water in oil pan- evidently it blew it out the exhaust.

 

[rfwoodvt]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

actually I believe that older engine is 60K since a rebuild. Local salvage yard operator has had it sitting in his warehouse with the tranny still attached for quite some time.

As for the newer engine, where the heck could I find a new cam? I can't help but think that regrinding will be just as expensive.

Any online resources for cams?

What about the flywheel and balancer you mentioned?

I have no problem doing the installs myself, but have absolutely no idea what parts to look for or where to get them.

I talked to a race shop today and they told me that there were numerous problems with 70's vintage 302's because of processing cutbacks in the casting of blocks....something about air entrainment....anyhow cylinder failure was/is common.

Any clue as to when they resolved that issue? is the late 70's early 80's known for any problems?

I am cheap for sure so the older engine (selling for $250 with tranny) is making a lot of sense, especially if I can just shove stuff in. I just don't want to punch another hole in another engine.

Looking forward to hearing back again!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

actually I believe that older engine is 60K since a rebuild. Without documentation, worthless claim. You have no idea who rebuilt it, what exactly they did, how far it is bored, etc etc. Local salvage yard operator has had it sitting in his warehouse with the tranny still attached for quite some time.

As for the newer engine, where the heck could I find a new cam? Ya weren't listenin', Delta Cams. 90$, shipped, your core, your specs. Highly renowned in the hotrod world. They also have their own shelf specs that they can apply based on your description of need. I can't help but think that regrinding will be just as expensive.

Any online resources for cams? http://www.deltacam.com/

What about the flywheel and balancer you mentioned? Small diameter 50 oz flywheel, 99$ at Jegs. About 50$ for the early style 50oz balancer. I'll have to go thru my receipts for the details.

I have no problem doing the installs myself, but have absolutely no idea what parts to look for or where to get them. Listen tight, Pilgram.

I talked to a race shop today (You're not building a race engine) and they told me that there were numerous problems with 70's vintage 302's because of processing cutbacks in the casting of blocks....something about air entrainment....anyhow cylinder failure was/is common. Absolute hogwash, earlier blocks are considered superior due to higher nickel content and somewhat heavier casting. This is only an issue if your trying to build a 7k rpm engine. Roller cam blocks are considered to be somewhat lighter in casting, but still well suited for anything but hyper race use.

Any clue as to when they resolved that issue? Non Issue is the late 70's early 80's known for any problems?

I am cheap for sure ( I bought a cheap replacement for a freeze broken engine in the mid 90's. The last time I took it out that summer, it started knocking. So I decided I'd find out the hard cold facts of 302's) so the older engine (selling for $250 with tranny) is making a lot of sense, especially if I can just shove stuff in. I just don't want to punch another hole in another engine.

Looking forward to hearing back again!

Either way, if you get a block within specs you'd be good to go. If you get a later model, original motor from a reputable salvage yard, where you can be certain that the mileage on the odometer is correct, you can rest in peace that you won't be getting a pig in a poke.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

MAN! I wish people were that way with my old 460!!

Can't hep it, they're rad!

 

[rfwoodvt]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Got a used engine now!

It is a 302 out of a late 1979 - 1980 pickup. 2 barrel with auto tranny.

Gonna swap everything over and need gaskets:

• head
• intake
• exhaust
• Freeze plugs
• what else?

Called the local boat shops and they got lost when I told them what I was doing....the heads are my marine heads of the 1974 (which I'm no longer even sure was the year on the motor) and block is 1979...seems they can't get thier computers to work on it.

Any how,

Any suggestions on online vendors and, more specifically, any particular part numbers I should be looking for?

Gonna use my marine cam, water pump, front pulley, fly wheel, alternator ,starter, etc.

ThanX!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

....Gonna use my marine cam,....

You'll need to reuse your lifters as well. (or get new ones with suitable breakin lube) Be absolutely sure not to mix up the order of your original lifters if you reuse them. If'n ya do, cam will be kaput in no time.
I would also use a break in lube with the old ones.

You may need to swap your timing cover as well. Ford made several different ones and the one on your original 888 is not only the right config, it is steel, not aluminum. At that point you might want to check and change your chainset while you are at it. A motor that old is bound to have some stretch on the chain and wear on the phenolic cam gear. (I don't think trucks used steel gears)

BTW, I think most boat shops are dummies when it comes to auto engine conversions.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

If you are going to get that deep into it rings and bearings are only a couple steps away. Might as well start off with a new/refreshed motor.

 

[rfwoodvt]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Well, I'm finally around to getting these motors swapped! I pulled the old motor out of my boat and found a few interesting surprises:

• The heads are off a 351
• the motor had been bored to .030 (as evidenced by the stamps on the pistons
• four of the 8 cylinders had holes into the water jacket. It appears that the holes were pressed from the cylinder into the jacket, leading me to believe that water got into the cylinders and froze

Now this begs the question as to how the water got there. The bad cylinders are the two front cylinders on teh left and the first and third on the right.

Any thoughts?

Also with all the apparent re-work this motor went through I have to wonder whether or not the cam is actually a marine cam to begin with.

Any thoughts on how I might Identfy it as a marine cam?

lastly Y'all mentioned using the same lifters again...just to confirm, that means using the same lifters that the cam was originally on, correct?

I appreciate the help!

 

[qaztwo]

Re: Mercruiser 888 Blown Engine

Front 2 cylinders might have been from a leaking intake manifold. 351w heads on 302 common (might want to mic the cylinders to see if it truely is a 302.) For $30 just change the lifters( my 2cents)