1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

[soggybritchesbait]

I finally ran my 1968 55hp to death! I picked up a 1978 85hp from a family member. The tilt motor is a 3 wire. It ran and tilted just fine while on the boat that I removed it from. I removed it with an engine hoist, used the tilt once while on the hoist to position it better, mounted it on my Cobia. I tested the tilt after mounting and noticed that it didn't do anything,not even a sound, it was as if there was no power getting to it. I had my husband (the elctrician) come out and take a look and, of course, it worked perfectly fine as if it always had. So I figured this was just the beginning of my problems.
How right I was!! Now I'm all alone again and decide to test it again and find it to be sluggish so I decide to check the fluid level. When I went to turn the fill screw it fell out in my hand, someone had loosened it and I was lucky it hadn't just fallen out prior to me getting it. So, I got out my shop manual, filled the reservior as it said, with motor in full tilt. I ran the motor down, up, then that was it... the demons took over. The motor consitently runs fine, but the motor won't go up or down now. We have manually lifted and lowered, filled and refilled, took the motor off and filled the reservior under it in case it had an air pocket, checked all of the wiring, replaced the control switch. Lastly but not leastly, I jumped the tilt motor from the wires coming from the motor and I still get the same thing, the motor is running but the motor won't go up or down. Well ket me correct that, if it sits for a few days in the up position, when I try the motor it will go down about an inch and it's done.
1st should I go ahead and replace the monster or does someone have an idea of what else I may try?
Now, I have a backup tilt system from a motor with blown heads. I decided to put it on this motor. So I get to the pivot pin and that thing is in there but good. I've heated it and beat it, had to cut off the end because it just mushroomed. Now I don't know what to do to get that thing out of there. I decided to try the pivot pin on the Evinrude and it won't budge either. I don't want to mushroom that one too so I thought I would come here before going any further. Is there something I can do to get these out or should I take them both to a specific type of shop (marine mechanics, machine shop)?
My business is suffering badly as this is the only boat/motor that I have so I would be forever indebted to all that can help as I am at my wits end.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Is the manual release valve closed? Does the trim solenoid make the normal clicking sounds when the switch is activated-either up or down?

 

[soggybritchesbait]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Is the manual release valve closed? Does the trim solenoid make the normal clicking sounds when the switch is activated-either up or down?

The manual release is closed but the solenoid only clicks in the up position, it runs the motor both ways but there's no clikcing sound in the down position.

 

[soggybritchesbait]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

What makes me think it's not the solenoid is that I bypassed the solenoid. What I did was this, the 3 wires coming off the tilt motor have plugs that plug into the 3 wires coming from the solenoid. I went straight from the battery and hot to the plug ends going into the tilt motor, in essence I hotwired it. I got the exact same results as using the the control box, the tilt motor is running but there is no movement.

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Sounds to me like a faulty connection. Double check and _clean_ all your connections. Also, inspect the wires for any nicks or cracks. You may have a corroded wire inside some seemingly good housing.

 

[soggybritchesbait]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

I went back and checked the connections again, here's what I did. I inspected the wiring harness coming out of the tilt motor to the connecters where the 3 wires plug in to go on to the solenoid. There is no apparent damage to the wiring harness, and of course the wires go down into the tilt motor so that end can't be tested. I cut the connecters off so I had bare wires to work with. Now all I'm working with at this point is the tilt motor and the (approx) 6 ft wiring harness coming out the top of it. I connected the black wire to my negative battery terminal then alternated the green and blue. The (outboard) motor budges ever so slightly in both directions only on the initial try. After the first try the outboard won't move. Now it's been sitting for about 3 days not being tried and this is how it always happens. It's as if 1)letting it sit for a few days allows it to build up a tiny bit of pressure or leak a tiny bit of fluid into something and 2) it seems as if the tilt system is straining to work and just can't quite catch onto something.
I was thinking of pulling the tilt motor off the replacement unit (Johnson) and trying in the Evinrude since I can't get either of the complete systems off.
I just wonder if it can be the tilt motor even though it runs. Or, I've read, in some of the forums, about a spring that breaks. Where would there be spring inside this thing.
Matter of fact, where can I get a shop manual on this sort of hydraulic system? Maybe I need to rebuild it. My outbaird shop manual says to take it to a proffesional.

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

I've got a '77 version of your motor and the factory shop manual has a pretty nice section on the t&t. They changed systems in '78 so I'm not all that familiar with what you've got. I'm also not all that familiar with the internals of the motor, but it sure sounds like a case of worn brushes and/or dirty armature. You might try taking the motor out and seeing if it works w/o a load.

 

[soggybritchesbait]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Thanks for all the suggestions. It looks like I need to get a hotter torch, for sure, and a softer metal punch. The steel punch that I purchased just bounces all over and won't stay centered.
I was sure hoping for a miracle answer to getting the thing working as opposed to switching them out. But for now I'll just take my medicine and get busy heating and beating. I'll let ya all know how it goes.
Oh yeah, reply to iwombat, I was in the process of taking the outboard off the boat and was going to switch the tilt motors around to see if that was the problem as you suggested. But my husband insists that the tilt motor is working. Could you tell me this much, if the brushes are bad will the tilt motor still run but not well enough for it to raise and lower the outboard? I'm game for just switching the tilt motors out, it's much easier than trying to switch the whole units out, seeing how I'm having so much trouble removing them in the first place.

 

[jwig]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

I'd go ahead and pull the pump motor and see if it is turning the pump and if the pump is good. Since you have a spare to swap out. My 88 88SPL had a slot in the pump and a mate on the motor shaft. Not too hard to change out. I had to replace the pump.

 

[soggybritchesbait]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Ok, I pulled the pump motor and replaced it with the other one and it's still the same. I put the origonal motor on the spare tilt system and it works fine. So, it's definitly not the motor.

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Yeah, worn brushes and armature = low power.

 

[soggybritchesbait]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

If I were going to replace the brushes and armeture where are they located? Can I rebuild it?

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Now, that I don't know. I don't see any internal parts located for that motor at the OMC site, so I'm guessing it's a unit replacement only kind of thing. Maybe someone else here knows if these motors are rebuildable at all.

That said, if you're about to junk it anyway you've got nothing to lose by cracking it open and seeing what's there.

 

[Seasport]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Sounds like your t/t motor is fine but your hydraulic pump isn't working. Looking at the parts list for that motor I see that there are various o-rings under the valve seats. I'd check these out first- are they still there, are they damaged. You may have a hydraulic leak there somewhere which is preventing pressure build up in the system.

 

[icy]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

forgive me for asking this but is it possible that the tnt has gotten air in it somehow and is airlocked? I have run into this with hyd cyl before and its basically the same thing. the pump runs and pumps.. but cant seem to move the air out of the way to get the fluid in the cyl..

 

[soggybritchesbait]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

I'm sure it could definitly have an air lock, or a seal could be broken, or maybe a small piece of trash in the line. That's what I keep thinking by the way it acts. I tried again yesterday, I can wait 5 minutes between tries and it will tilt down about 1/2 an inch but won't tilt up at all. It's as though sitting allows some fluid to seep into the cilinder or something.
I have printed out the Bombardier breakdown of the system so I can see where the seals are. The motor seal is there but will have to do a lot more taking apart to check the other seals.
So, if it were, by some miracle, just an air lock how would I go about getting that out? I've taken off the motor and primed the pump thinking that was it but it wasn't.
I'll try getting out the air lock then I'm off to the telephone to start calling shops to see who will get that ptin out of them the cheapest. Then I can change the 2 units out and work on the broken one at my leisure.
Would still love to hear any suggestions about getting out air locks.

 

[soggybritchesbait]

Re: 1978 85hp Evinrude Tilt stopped working, replace or fix?

Finally! I got both of the units free. To get the frozen pins out I used Mapp gas with my torch and rented a Chisel Hammer Drill. The bit kept slightly mushrooming the end of the pin so I used my drill with a sanding stone on and kept cleaning the mushroomed edge. Finally I had it cleaned up enough to where it actually made the end of the pin a bit smaller so when it slightly mushroomed it wasn't larger than the hole. I then put the working unit on the motor, filled it and ran it up and down repeatedly as the per my shop manual instructions. I was excited so I spent 2 hours cleaning the boat spotless, hoping to go out that day. But my luck ain't that good. I decided to double check the fluid in the tilt unit one more time. Well what I found was a puddle of fluid on the ground. Had to take the unit back off the motor, 2 days of hard work got the one stuck screw out, replaced the O-ring under the pump motor and the reserviour and put it back together. Had to torch the snot out of the reserviour screws to get to not leak. Now it works fine, holds fluid and hopefully I'm done with this unit for quite some time.
Gonna take a break, do some fishing, sell some bait, then get out the unit that I removed and see if I can get it working.
Will update on that unit repair when done.
Until next time, thank you all so very much. Your assistance helped me in a big way.