Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

[Boomyal]

I was having difficulty starting my son's '87 Pontiac Sunbird after sitting for 3 months. It tried to catch but could not sustain it. I pulled off the air cleaner to verify that it was getting fuel, it was. Then I pulled a plug to check the condition. It was a little sooty but not wet. What I did notice was that the plug gap (fairly new AC plugs) looked like you could drive a semi thru it.<br /><br />I grabbed the Haynes manual for the car and absolutely nowhere could I find a spec for plug gap amidst all the 'world motor' garbage. (2.0 liter OHC). I must have spent 20 minutes pouring over the manual to no avail.<br /><br />Finally I called the local Napa and gave them the plug number. They stated that that plug was indeed shown for that model of car and stated that the gap was supposed to be ????? .060????<br /><br />I find that real hard to believe. It is a stock ignition and could not possibly support that kind of gap. I really think that is why the car was so hard to start. I finally got it going, but hey, my '94 TBI 454 Suburban only calls for a .035 gap.<br /><br />Anyone have any specific knowledge for this 4 banger??

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

No specific knowledge. But I will say my 1990 Cavalier Z-24 called for .045 or .050 gap an the plugs. Heck, my 1997 Mercruiser 5.7LX EFI Gen + calls for .045!

 

[ob]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

Just phoned the loacl Auto parts store way down south here and they list a standard AC Delco plug for that year model and engine and stated that .060" is indeed the gap it calls for.<br /><br />Not that it matters ,but just for comparitive reasons,my daughters Rodeo 3.2 litre engine calls for a .044" gap.<br /><br />Try looking again in your Haynes manual in the first chapter under tune up and routine maintenance and see if the recommended plug and gap is listed.I've got three different Haynes manuals and they all have this info in the first chapter.If yours doesn't ,I'd be ranting too.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

sparkplugs.com says .060" also.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

Boom the correct plug should be an AC R44XLS6. It should be gapped at .060". Also That car should be fuel injected and not carburated, so no choke. If there is a lot of crud around the throttle plate it needs to be cleaned (sea<br />foam works great). Just to see if you have enough spark, see if one of the plug wires will arch across a gap of about 1/4 inch, it should. I would suspect hard starting as a fuel pressure or temp sensor problem. Possible filter restriction.<br /><br />How did it run when it did crank?

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

Just a little info on your truck also. If and when the plugs get changed be sure to use AC Delco only. I know a lot of people like Autolite, but they do not make a direct replacement plug for that engine, or any other 5.0 or 5.7 liter GM truck late model Fuel Injected engine requiring a .035" gap. They will sell you one that is supposed to fit, but the Autolite plug that you get is supposed to be gapped at .045" and not .035", if you gap it to .035" you will have bent the electrode down at a odd angel. They may work for a little while but the electrode end will burn off very fast resulting in an exissive gap.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

Originally posted by Reel Poor:<br /> Boom the correct plug should be an AC R44XLS6. It should be gapped at .060". Also That car should be fuel injected and not carburated, so no choke. If there is a lot of crud around the throttle plate it needs to be cleaned (sea<br />foam works great). Just to see if you have enough spark, see if one of the plug wires will arch across a gap of about 1/4 inch, it should. I would suspect hard starting as a fuel pressure or temp sensor problem. Possible filter restriction.<br /><br />How did it run when it did crank?

RP, those are the plugs that I am using. I ended up holding the throttle down about 2/3 to keep the throttle plate open, it finally caught with a cloud of smoke, ran a little ragged, smoothed out and then idled down nicely. I drove it around the block and it ran just fine.<br /><br />As for the fuel pressure, I'm not sure if you can tell anything by watching the injector during cranking but it was putting out a nice wet mist. (not flooding the butterfly) I never did try to verify the spark.<br /><br />Now that I have it running, I do have some Deep Creep that I will spray into the throttle body. I'll let it sit a while then fire it up.<br /><br />Should I spray some more when it is running?

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

Should I spray some more when it is running?<br /><br /><br />Probably wont be necessary unless its extreamly dirty. <br /><br />May have been flooded somewhat. To clear most flooded GM FI engines you can hold the throttle pedel to the floor and it will stop fuel flow through the injectors (inhibits injector pulse). From what your saying I would read the codes and see if the coolant temp sensor has set a code. Also check the connector for corrosion.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

Reel Poor, that is good to know that putting the pedal to the metal stops the fuel flow from the injectors. I did not realize that. I just opened the throttle thinking it might lean things out if it was flooded, but it neither smelled like it or were the plugs wetted.<br /><br />I will just spray the deep creep down the throttle body (i'm sure it has never been cleaned-however the injector was replaced once) and let it sit a while before I start it.<br /><br />As for a 'code', the check engine light has not come on. I know it works because it has come on before for bad plugs and the oxygen sensor.<br /><br />Thanks for the help.<br /><br />I'm still po'd re the Haynes manual. If the plug gap is in it, it is way too difficult to find it for any practical use.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Haynes Auto Repair Manual Rant w/ Questions

Boom you can have a faulty temp sensor that is still within is variable range but providing the wrong temp signal to the computer. This will not turn on the check engine light or throw a fault code. May need to be put on a scanner to actually read the signal. If its indicating a below 0 temp to the computer the computer will richen up the fuel dilevery, possibly causing flooding and a rich burn condition. May just drive it a bit and see how it acts. If it continues to act up get her checked. Also make sure there is no fuel in the oil.