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Oddity Found In Engine

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  • Oddity Found In Engine

    I bought a JDM engine (4th one from same source over the years) the other day to drop in GF's Honda (1.7L Vtec), I pulled a plug and shinned a flashlight in, noticed the below, pulled the head off after the few loose ones stuck to the magnet that I had initially dropped in through the spark plug hole.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jb...V_cz9QL0WGRe2h

    Has anyone ever seen this?.......Tiny steel spheres ("pitting balls"?) forming/growing/deposited all around on the piston edges? I've never seen this, the valves look ok (from the top anyway) and the bore walls are mirror clean, the oil pan oil has no metal in it to speak of (lower end seems ok), no evidence of what and where these are coming from, is it from the rings?

    Seems if the rings were going, the bore walls would show some effect.....hmmmmm. This piston in the photo is the worst but, appears they are growing on the other as well, any idea's? My Mech friend of 50 some years is perplex as well and this man runs 10-30W in his veins .....
    Last edited by sam am I; January 10th, 2019, 12:32 PM.

  • #2
    something inhaled in the intake track?

    pistons look like signs of detonation
    Cheesehead boating the Gulf Coast of FLA 27.51° N, 82.53° W

    1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 -VP 290 DP now powered by custom 468 - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/owner...988-rogue-2420

    Past Boats
    1970 Wooster Hellion - Merc 9.8
    2002 SeaRay 190BR - 5.0 - A1G2 - "Cheeseheads in Paradise"
    1984 Avanti 170DLI -3.0 stringer- "Ship Happens"

    What’s behind you doesn’t matter.Enzo Ferrari

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Scott Danforth View Post
      something inhaled in the intake track?
      Considered, weird......something ferrous, all different sizes and/or growing/collecting but, not even across all cylinders? Scratching head....Maybe like some ferrous form of a fuel additive/crap in a fuel someone was using in the engine over sea's and it grew worse in the hole that typically wear first.....IDK, think I'll be getting a different one none the less
      Last edited by sam am I; January 10th, 2019, 12:59 PM.

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      • #4
        the fact that it is ferrous would lead me to think something injested

        maybe its spark plug electrodes


        one of my old 4.1 buick builds that I built for my brother ended up with screws from the throttle plates being sucked into the bores (good ole bro took screws out and didnt re-stake them)

        either way, 5 of the pistons had damage from just 3 screws. the screws bounced around the combustion chamber, got kicked back up the intake track and sucked in another bore. when I pulled the heads, 2 of the screws were mashed into the tops of the pistons, i am guessing the 3rd ultimately made it out the exhaust.
        Cheesehead boating the Gulf Coast of FLA 27.51° N, 82.53° W

        1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 -VP 290 DP now powered by custom 468 - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/owner...988-rogue-2420

        Past Boats
        1970 Wooster Hellion - Merc 9.8
        2002 SeaRay 190BR - 5.0 - A1G2 - "Cheeseheads in Paradise"
        1984 Avanti 170DLI -3.0 stringer- "Ship Happens"

        What’s behind you doesn’t matter.Enzo Ferrari

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Scott Danforth View Post
          maybe its spark plug electrodes
          Yup,, current plugs are aged and worn normal and all look good BUT, who knows what the "older plugs" looked like, not sure I had originals. They say 75K miles typically on these engines, not so sure bout that however, seems 150K-200K at times.

          Originally posted by Scott Danforth View Post
          got kicked back up the intake track and sucked in another bore.
          Would have had to have thrown/blown them up out of one hole's intake valve's opening while it was open and/or jammed open.....hmmm, that's crazy!!

          I'll go through all the valves tonight, if they and their seats all look good, with the bores all looking so well, I might take another day, wipe down mating surfaces, pop the cam back in and torque head back on with its cleaned up old gasket, do a quick leak down and compression test in each hole, will see what shakes out.

          If it/anything is questionable, it goes back as is.......

          If all is well and in spec'ish, I'll (maybe) take the head back off, clean up the all that crap off the piston top/edges, have the head machined/checked to flat, pop on a new head gasket and run it.
          Last edited by sam am I; January 10th, 2019, 02:24 PM.

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          • #6
            That's a rebuilt engine? If so they skipped the parts washer step...
            '47 18' CC Utility "Knock On Wood"
            Various Evinrude powered Pontoons all named "Floosy"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jakedaawg View Post
              That's a rebuilt engine? If so they skipped the parts washer step...
              No, JDM (Japanese Domistic Market) engines are engines pulled directly out of Japanese cars (Honda, Toyoda, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, Mitsu) when the engine emissions go over the limit.

              In Japan evidently, the emission levels are a bit more stringent then here in the states, so much so that the engine usually only has had, on average, about 75K - 100K on it they say. And as most go, a Honda engine for example can typically go 250K and usually still meet most states emissions limits...We have none in my county, so its win win for me I guess.

              That is what this engine is, they cut and un-bolt them out of the cars, drop um directly in crates, old oil and all still in them and then on to pallets, put um on a ship and float them over directly from Japan.

              I'm just in the initial'ish stage of checking for major stuff (I pull the pan and look for metal before I load it though) that might be wrong (metal BB's looking things on piston tops?).

              Once I have and feel what's a decent engine, I'll clean um up a bit, add new belts, water pump, gaskets, plugs etc., swap a few things around (same'ish blocks etc) and drop them in my old Honda's ( I have 3 Civics, I'm cheap, like working on things, own too many tools)........BUT, now that i saved so much money, I just bought a new drone with a built in FLIR camera...Oh boy!!! It's here next week

              I blew up my GF's engine racing a bit but, it had a wrist pin going anyway, had 230K on it. I just helped it along a bit faster, I still got yelled at though.
              Last edited by sam am I; January 11th, 2019, 11:14 PM.

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              • #8
                When you operate an oxy-acetalyne torch to cut steel you end up with many little steel balls on the floor.----Got in there when they cut the engine out of the car.------Or when the engine was near where a cutting torch was in use.---So my guess is that you vacuum them out.----Start and enjoy the motor.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sam am I View Post

                  No, JDM (Japanese Domistic Market) engines are engines pulled directly out of Japanese cars (Honda, Toyoda, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, Mitsu) when the engine emissions go over the limit.
                  It has nothing to do with emissions. Japan and a number of other countries, Germany for one, increase the annual car tax with each year of ownership in an effort to keep the “fleet” up to date with the newest safety and emission vehicles.

                  There comes a point where it’s cheaper to buy a new than pay the tax on the old. Assures
                  the automobile manufactures a steady supply of new customers

                  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pic...olumn_146.html
                  ....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dingbat View Post
                    It has nothing to do with emissions. Japan and a number of other countries, Germany for one, increase the annual car tax with each year of ownership in an effort to keep the “fleet” up to date with the newest safety and emission vehicles.

                    There comes a point where it’s cheaper to buy a new than pay the tax on the old. Assures
                    the automobile manufactures a steady supply of new customers

                    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pic...olumn_146.html
                    A+.....that is why you don't see older cars in those countries. They force people to buy new cars by over taxing their old ones. Makes their country look good at the expense of liberty.
                    The older I get,the less I care what people think.....Central NC

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                    • #11
                      Sign up today
                      I pulled all the valves, cleaned and dressed them and their seats.........Everything looks really good, lil carbon here and there, pop the head back on for leak downs both at TDC and BDC, numbers were 3%, 2%, 6% and 2%

                      Rings and valve seem fine, at least by the leak down numbers they are is pretty good shape, should be a decent engine........Have to go with Race and Scott suggested, they came from outside.

                      My theory? Metal BB's came from probably cutting the exhaust pipe (exhaust side since the intake/air filter seems factory and were all in place, bolted up) off just below at the header flange bolts (they do that), engine/car was tipped just right, few exhaust valves were open'ish and in blew the steel BB's.

                      Probably not a good practice? Glad I looked (usually do), not sure all those steel BB's would be all that of a good thing to have floating around in the bores.

                      At any rate, I'll have the head milled/checked flat, put a new head gasket on it along with new value seals, clean out the steel and run it, It appears to be a fairly fresh'ish engine with those leak down numbers being what they are.


                      Originally posted by dingbat View Post
                      It has nothing to do with emissions.
                      Oh yeah, that Shaken Law thing, I had heard of it, just didn't look into it all that much.

                      Guess it's more in line of living on a small'ish island nation (with these "low mile" JDM engines in particular) and given they only have 4 or 5 yrs, on average, they don't/aren't necessarily putting relatively that large miles on their engines by the time the piper wants to get paid, hmmm interesting, thx.
                      Last edited by sam am I; January 14th, 2019, 11:11 AM.

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