Bayliner or FourWinds?

[jkust]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

If you looked at the 2010 Bayliner 175 and 4 winns, I'm curious why you would choose the 4 winns? The 4 wins looks like a piece of junk compared to the bayliner (which I admit is odd, but it does). As for the premium brands, I think you'll be suprised when you look at their entry level boats. SeaRay for example has an entry level BR which is pretty sad looking.

The bayliners don't get much fancier as they go up in size, where the other brands do - but I think their entry level stuff (17-18 ft) starts at a higher level than most.

I dislike the BL over the FW for the narrower beam, lighter dry weight, bench seats vs captains chairs lower fuel capacity. I like the helm of the BL and gauge layout better as well as the stereo placement. I also like the SS cupholders on the BL. I didn't quite catch if the FW has no carpet (as I suspect) vs glued down as standard and since there were pictures of each for the 175, I will just generically say I like which ever has a glass sole. If I actually stepped onto a 2010 of each model, I'd probably have a lot more to say.

As for the Sea Ray, I couldn't agree with you more. I looked at them extensively and couldn't think of another smaller bowrider that is more marketing over substance. Go back a few years even to 1999 or so and they made some very nice pre-sport era small bowriders. When you go up in size beyond our entry level length, Sea Ray is a very nice boat.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

The Four Winns H180 LE is for sure a price point boat. It is marketed and packaged to compete at a much lower price point than the regular H180. However, they use the same hulls.

The LE is offered with basically no options. It comes with a 3.0 Mercruiser, sunsport seating, and the blue gel coated hull.

This boat is intended to get the typical guy who is considering getting a boat for the first time to at least look at the Four Winns. With a price around $15-$16k there is a good chance that a first time buyer will have it on the list to at least consider.

I have to agree that it is a stripped down boat with just enough features to compete.

That being said, look at some of the specs and standards.

Deadrise: FW 21 degrees; BL 19 degrees
LOA: FW 17'5" BL 17'6"
Beam: FW 7'7" BL 6'11"

Four Winns has a fiberglass cockpit (no carpet). Bayliner appears to have carpet glued to the deck.

I vote Four Winns.

 

[jkust]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

I just went thru all this and decided on a tahoe q4, basically the same money with a lil bit more room/options.

http://www.tahoe-boats.com/boat/?boat=3215

I agree that it looks pretty darn nice. Completely ignoring Tahoe's reputation, and judging just by the pictures, I like the Tahoe over the BL and FW. The Tahoe looks like they made a concerted effort to include more nice touches. I think in this newest generation of boats, it is really hard to buy a bad boat. They have all made such strides especially with contemporizing their interiors and components.

 

[Mordekai]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

I agree that it looks pretty darn nice. Completely ignoring Tahoe's reputation, and judging just by the pictures, I like the Tahoe over the BL and FW. The Tahoe looks like they made a concerted effort to include more nice touches. I think in this newest generation of boats, it is really hard to buy a bad boat. They have all made such strides especially with contemporizing their interiors and components.

There are detractors for every single brand out there, I did the oldschool thing and pound the pavement, went to see glastron, four winns, bayliner, tahoe, searay, stingray. Basically we went and visit every boat dealer within the area for a month.

Don't forum shop, go and check out the boats for yourself, sit in it, play with it, open up the engine compartment and see.

 

[jkust]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

There are detractors for every single brand out there, I did the oldschool thing and pound the pavement, went to see glastron, four winns, bayliner, tahoe, searay, stingray. Basically we went and visit every boat dealer within the area for a month.

Don't forum shop, go and check out the boats for yourself, sit in it, play with it, open up the engine compartment and see.

I'd agree with you on most of that but this forum is helpful to cover a lot of ground quickly plus although I mentioned above that most of the brands are nice exterior/materials wise, you do really need to sea trial them. You can't necessarily see all the differences between an inexpensive 2,200 lb 18 foot boat and an expensive 3,000 lb 18 foot boat but you can sure feel them on the water and while towing for that matter. There are also a some brands that I never hear negative things about other than the high price. Cobalt comes to mind. I think a person needs to really hear bias on both sides and decide for themselves or at least hear it to get into the overall boating train of thought.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

Since the power units could be anything in either you need to compare the hulls in quality, endurance, ride and handling. FW is a little higher up the ladder in overall quality, but I doubt you are going to trash either. I do agree, however, you should consider a larger late model used boat. A 17' looks real good the first few outings but when your kids get a little bigger, or start to invite friends the boat gets small fast.

Basically; Buy the largest later model boat for your money that fits your usage requirements. And yes a V8 IS better then a V6.

Your buying decision is yours, but since you asked for input, we are trying to tell you the things we went through so you can benefit from our experience.

Good Luck.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

Depending on where you are going to use it and what you have to tow with....I'd condider a 2-3 year old 20' version of either rather than a 17-18 new version...because a 17 gets small really fast and will limit your boating to calm protected waters...keep in mind even small lakes get rough with a lot of weekend boat traffic...where I am (North Shore Long Island) a 20' is the minimum size I'd be comfortable with....and a good used 2 year old boat will not depreciate a much as a new one will....

And as far as Bayliner vs Four Winns...hard to say....I'd check certain basic features...is the floor carpet covered plyood...no good...you want a full fiberglass liner on the deck...I know that Bayliner had a bad past rep but their recent boats are much improved....keep in mind also the parent company that owned FW and a bunch of other boats went chapter 11 and they were sold to Platinum Equity...not sure how this affects warrantees and service...you want to look into this carefully before putting your money down....

BTW I looked at a Tahoe at the Nassau County boat show and was NOT impressed...the deck was quite flexy and the interior looked cheap to me....the repaired deck in my 22 year old FW is way more solid....

 

[Bayliner Customer Service]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

Duane, we hope you decide to choose our product. If we can ever be of assistance, we have a dedicated Customer Service staff with over 248 years combined Bayliner experience to respond to you via phone or email. BAYLINER CUSTOMER SERVICE TEAM

 

[duanemc]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

wow there are so many things to look at it is crazy. I looked at the Bayliner today and it was nice but new is always nice. I am going out to see the FW tomorrow, then I may do what was suggested by not limiting my choices to just the two brands and do the legwork. I am off work for a couple weeks so I am going to look at all of them. Also maybe a used 20 footer may be the way to go I can see a 17 footer getting small fast. So anyway off to FW tomorrow maybe try and look at a Grew as well.
thanks for all the advice it is awsome
Duane

 

[PaxnChris]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

So???? I read the entire thread and curious what boat you chose?

 

[duanemc]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

I am still trying to decide there are so many different brands I really liked the Glastrone 18 footer as well. Now being so late I may hold off to get a good deal at our boat show in Feb.

 

[tmh]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

Well, I'd say there just isn't enough info about the buyer's expectations and uses of the boat to really make a good recommendation... you'd have to know how long they plan to own the boat, etc. I will say that I have also noticed that the "better brands" like Sea Ray and FW often make low quality entry level bowriders these days. The Sea Ray vs.Bayliner in the base 185 type size - can't say I see the Sea Ray as being a better boat.

However, a used Sea Ray still commands a premium vs. a used bayliner either for resale or trade-in, so if it isn't a 15+ year ownership then maybe the Sea Ray doesn't cost any more to have owned once purchase price and resale price are considered. Similar to FW I'd say.

 

[Subliminal]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

Having just bought an 18 foot boat before this summer, let me tell you some of my experience.

First, i decided i wouldn't even consider anything without the v6. I slalom ski with some fat boys on occasion and i didn't want to worry about power. I really wanted the volvo setup, but merc would have been fine. Luckily I was able to hold out and found an 18 footer with a volvo v6. It's carbed, when I would have preferred EFI, but sometimes you gotta compromise somewhere.

I tried sitting in a lot of hull configurations...and they can be vastly different on the 18 foot boats.

I liked the bench in the back vs the two little jump seats beside the dog house, but was worried about the room leftover in the boat with the bench. After a summer on the water (well, almost a whole summer), I think it worked out well with the jump seats. I usually leave one of the cushions out and put my cooler back there.

I can fit 7 people on my boat...it says 8 max capacity, but that'd be one person sitting in the middle of the bow facing the back of the boat. Not ideal.

6 people is the absolute best...I have the most fun with 6 people (including myself) on my boat. It CAN be a little crowded, but with the layout of my lil 18 footer, it sees just fine.

We have a small SUV and a big truck. I wanted a boat both could pull. My 18 footer is 2400 lbs dry. With fuel and trailer and some toys, it's right up there at the small SUVs 3500 lb max. I decided to opt for brakes on the trailer to help that lil guy out. Glad I did. They work great in a pinch.

Now, we started looking at used first, but then we started looking at used for ~$15k. Then we went to one place and they had a boat I could never afford, but factory leftover from a few years ago, for what I could afford. I ended up getting a 33k brand new boat for $18k with the brand new trailer and brakes.

And the dealer I went to sold Monterey for years, and then picked up Glastron as a more affordable line of boats. The 09 Glastron 18 footer that was sitting beside my boat in his shop looked really nice by itself, but not so nice sitting next to this Monterey. The fit/finish wasn't quite there, and little things like the pop in cleats and the quality of the vinyl seats really showed through.

Basically, my advice to you would be to look around A LOT. Go check out some more expensive brands of boats...see if they have anything they just want to get rid of, that's been there for a while. You can get a stellar deal if you really look around. I know I'm pretty danged happy with the deal I got!

 

[JimKW]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

I was driving through a small town a few months ago and went into a small restaurant/bar to get something to eat. I sat at the bar next to a couple and we got to talking. I mentioned that I have a boat and it so happens that they did too.

They asked me what brand I had and I said Crownline and the guy said wow that's a high end boat. I said what do you have and he said a Sea Ray. Based on my knowledge of boat from 20 years ago, I said well Crownline might be high end, but Sea Ray is the top of the line. He basically said not really, it's a new entry level. He gave me the impression that he really didn't care for it that much and was more impressed with an older Crownline.

I have to say that my 2000 Crownline is sure in good shape for being more than 10 years old. It has been garage kept since new except for last summer. I now keep it in my garage year round. I paid $10,750 for it a year ago and could not be happier. A little bigger would be nicer though and a V8 would be nicer than the V6, especially if it was a little bigger.

How well a used boat has been taken care of is way more important than the brand name no doubt, but a higher end boat to begin with being taken well care of is the best of both worlds. Just my $.02.

 

[This_lil_fishy]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

That's funny, just made a post about a crownline for sale I just saw *drool*. However, that's a bit off topic. I also looked at entry level boats for quite some time. Including the bayliners and tahoe's.

The Bayliners looked pretty decent at first, as entry level boats. However I did note a few short cuts to make that entry level price. As others have mentioned the glued carpet flooring is POOP! If you need carpet for whatever reason, get the snap in option with fiberglass liner. The glass work from the inside seemed decent, but when compared to other manufacturers seemed a bit spartan or cheaply done (look into the crevices and the engine bay real close). Engines and and outdrives...well as you've seen it's pretty much all the same for even the highest end boats...mercruiser...volvo. Toss the coin. Seems a lot of people prefer the volvo..but I am perfectly happy with the merc.

Tahoe, well this was last year that I bought my boat...so from everything I looked at with the tahoe it just didn't feel right. It think they stepped it up a bit, but even last year, you could see the rub rail joints off by as much as 1/4". The fiberglass work looked real uneven...looking at the outside of the hulls of the show room boats length ways and it seemed the hulls have deep waves in them. Not the smooth straight lines I'd expect. The dealer I bought my boat from was also a tahoe dealer...when I questioned quality he admitted it needed some work.

Four Winns...didn't look, but we did look at Doral which I would think an equivalent manufacturer...their entry level boats look well built..but you could see that a lot of 'features' were skimped heavily on...gauges and such. Heck, there wasn't even any cup holders in the bow riders we looked at.

Glastron..well this is a brand that has been around for ages and changed hands a few times. We bought this boat for a few reasons. First was price, it was the last remaining new 2008 on the lot at the beginning of the 2009 boating season. So the price was ridiculously low (about 60% of sticker!!). Second it has cup holders all over the place...which seems minor..but think about it...hot sunny day...very little breeze...got an ice cold drink but no where to put it! The boat has many very useful features, built in removable cooler, full gauges including depth, large fuel tank (still haven't put any fuel in it this summer!), decent sound system (not great, but functional), aux power switches and cigarette light adapter for accessories, bimini top...etc...
Cons: My glastron has had problems with screws stripping out (windshield and ski locker door). It was repaired by the dealer..but really...a new boat should never have this kind of problem, certainly not something from a brand with the history of glastron.

As the others mentioned, if you can..move up to 20', that 17' will get real small real quick. To shrink a boat..just add water. It looks big enough on the trailer..but in the water it gets a LOT smaller.


Ian

 

[duanemc]

Re: Bayliner or FourWinds?

This place rocks !!! I pretty much know now that I am going to wait for the big boat show in Ottawa in Feb. to get a boat. All the major manufactures are there so it is like one stop shopping. All I really want a boat for is to waterski/tube, and tour the Rideau canal (my wife and sons have never been through a lock). I do know for sure though that at least a v6 is in order I am not getting any lighter to pull around hahaha. With any luck I can stumble across older stock and get a decent price on a 20 or 21 footer. I also kinda of like the cuddies but I am pretty sure it will be a bowrider that wins out.