firearms aboard your boat

[JCF350]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

We had not done anything wrong and the Coast Guard was just doing saftey inspections. We were still within 3 miles of shore so state waters. I wanted to ask what the law is but was afraid would triger a search of the boat so did not.

As far as the Coast Guard boarding you goes, it is anyone (with very few exceptions) anywhere in the world.

 

[dingbat]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Example: You have a carry permit for Virginia (or Fl or Pa) and decide to carry your gun while boating. If for some reason you are boarded by the Maryland DNR police, your permit would not recognized by Maryland and you'd promptly be cuffed and jailed for illegal carry.

For clarification. It is not illegeal in Maryland to carry a rife or shotgun on a boat. It's quite popular to blast and cast during migratory bird season.

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

As far as the Coast Guard boarding you goes, it is anyone (with very few exceptions) anywhere in the world.

Yes, everywhere except the territorial waters of another country. Then you're in their juridiction which is usually worse.

 

[JCF350]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Yes, everywhere except the territorial waters of another country. Then you're in their juridiction which is usually worse.

They board there to. Usually in the company of the local authorities, but it all depends on permissions (which they have with just about everybody) which they check on for each instance.

And yes it is usually worse, specially places like Cuba or around Africa.

 

[JCF350]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Here is a list of states with reciprocity agreements with FLA.


http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html

 

[maxwell18]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

I don't carry a gun, but would use my flare gun in a heart beat....

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

If you boat in a place where you could be an easy victum you need something as a very last resort to protect yourself.. Having one on the river on Sunday where there may be drunks etc is NOT the place to have one. The further you get from groups of people the more you need one.

 

[narukami]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Bennie B:

I appreciate the apology, but no apology is necessary. BTW, you expressed a attitude that most cops I know live by...we say it this way:

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Hopefully, if you do the job right, neither will happen.

This is a terrific forum. Here's wishing you all have the best in 2008...great health, extreme happiness, more wealth than is justly deserved and terrific boating. Happy New Year.

 

[crb478]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

The term "frisk" refers to a safety check of a person for officer safety, a car/boat cannot be frisked.

I think the topic of the thread was on the legality of keeping legal firearms on your boat, so that doesn't apply. Generally, a moving boat/car can be searched with probable cause to believe that an illegal firearm or other contraband is present, not on reasonable suspicion (there's a difference). I was speaking on the general premise that a boat/car not suspected of containing contraband is secure, as an extension of your home.

To sum it up what I'm saying: an otherwise legal firearm stored in a closed storage area in a boat is not the same as keeping the firearm concealed on your person or in your clothing. In Louisiana, state law specifically forbids the concealing of a weapon on one's person.

The term frisk has been used by the United States Supereme court inreference to searching the lunge area of a vehicle. All one need to search that area is reasonalbe suspicion of contriband or weapons and the ability to articulate why you would reasonably believe them there. If you have probable cause you can make the arrest the the entire vehicle can be searched incident to arrest excluding locked containers which would require a warrant.

 

[Nandy]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

The concealed carry permit only deals with concealing a weapon on your person (ie in your clothing), nothing to do with a car, boat, etc. The other guy probly was lying to you about being a cop, judging by what he said. A boat is like your car, an extension of your home. Sounds like those two were pulling your leg.

As long as the weapon you're carrying is allowed under local laws then storing it in your boat should be the same as keeping it in your car or home.

No, no, no... In NC if you have a loaded gun in your glove compartment and do not have a carry permit you are violating the law. The gun either has to be in plain view (dash or deck) or in a safe compartment out of your immediate reach. The best advise as far as carrying in USA is to check with the local LEO. Way too many differences across states.

 

[PrplGld]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

The term frisk has been used by the United States Supereme court inreference to searching the lunge area of a vehicle. All one need to search that area is reasonalbe suspicion of contriband or weapons and the ability to articulate why you would reasonably believe them there. If you have probable cause you can make the arrest the the entire vehicle can be searched incident to arrest excluding locked containers which would require a warrant.

Search incidental to arrest is limited to the person and immediate area, if he can't reach it, can't search it. Most people can reach the entire interior of their vehicle, an obvious exception would be the driver of a Suburban and the rear of his vehicle.

Chimel v. California
Terry v. Ohio

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Stop
I'm not sure where you heard about frisking anything other than a person. Can you provide a source on this Supreme Court case you mention?

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Search incidental to arrest is limited to the person and immediate area, if he can't reach it, can't search it. Most people can reach the entire interior of their vehicle, an obvious exception would be the driver of a Suburban and the rear of his vehicle.

Chimel v. California
Terry v. Ohio

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Stop
I'm not sure where you heard about frisking anything other than a person. Can you provide a source on this Supreme Court case you mention?

This is true, however if the officer was lied to and/or he has reason to believe he or his boarding crew are in danger, a full search may be conducted under the guise of "officer safety". Such a search would legally emcompass any area a human may hide, which is just about anywhere. This is where the marine environment differs from what most LEO's are used to. Most traffic situations wouldn't apply.

 

[Caveman Charlie]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

If the coast guard is anything like out local cops they will search anywhere they da**ed well please. If they don't find anything your happy and don't complain. If they do nobody is going to listen to your complains from jail. Forget the elementary school stuff they do what they want.

 

[PrplGld]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

This is true, however if the officer was lied to and/or he has reason to believe he or his boarding crew are in danger, a full search may be conducted under the guise of "officer safety". Such a search would legally emcompass any area a human may hide, which is just about anywhere. This is where the marine environment differs from what most LEO's are used to. Most traffic situations wouldn't apply.

The reason I'm staying away from that is the original topic: The simple issue of whether a firearm is legal in the boat, if I recall correctly. If the firearm is legal and you behave in a reasonable manner then that scenario never comes into play.

 

[PrplGld]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

No, no, no... In NC if you have a loaded gun in your glove compartment and do not have a carry permit you are violating the law. The gun either has to be in plain view (dash or deck) or in a safe compartment out of your immediate reach. The best advise as far as carrying in USA is to check with the local LEO. Way too many differences across states.

Well, according to N.C. law that doesn't appear to be the case. Specifically, 14-269 says a person cannot "carry concealed about his person". Your "person" and "immediate control" are two different legal terms. The link:
http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.html

Do you know of a court decision or statute to explain what you're saying?

 

[PrplGld]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

The reason I'm staying away from that is the original topic: The simple issue of whether a firearm is legal in the boat, if I recall correctly. If the firearm is legal and you behave in a reasonable manner then that scenario never comes into play.

Of course the topic was boats, not vehicles and glove compartments :redface: And I always gripe on other boards about OT posts...

 

[PondTunes]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

No, no, no... In NC if you have a loaded gun in your glove compartment and do not have a carry permit you are violating the law. The gun either has to be in plain view (dash or deck) or in a safe compartment out of your immediate reach. The best advise as far as carrying in USA is to check with the local LEO. Way too many differences across states.

It is also worth noting that in NC if you are a concealed carry permit holder and your weapon is concealed in the vehicle it must be within reach of the permit holder. Putting the weapon in the glove box while you are in the back is not allowed. You are to be in "control" of the firearm at all times in case you need to produce it in the event of a stop.

Another odd circumstance is if the weapon is in a box or the trunk, as long as it is secure out of easy reach inside a locked compartment, UNLOADED and not stored with the ammunition it isn't considered concealed. So you could put a pistol in the locked trunk and it wouldn't be considered concealed if you didn't have ammunition in the trunk with it. In any event you should let the officer know that you are either armed or transporting a firearm.

I totally agree tho always make a call to the local law enforcement office (the county sheriff is the best to call imo) to find out what the differences are and what you should and should not do!

This would go for boats as well if the weapon is loaded on-board and not in your control you are probably asking for trouble.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Regarding Legal matters and court cases...
(These only apply to NC as they are what I am familiar with!)

As with anything there are always a lot of "what-if's?" these unknowns and little tiny things that might be an exception or one mans interpretation of the law can land you with a misdemeanor or a felony charge.


NC law defines concealed carry as "on or about the person," and the courts have construed this to also mean weapons that are stored within easy access. Does a locked glovebox prevent "easy access?" This interpretation will be up to law enforcement, and ultimately the Judge.


Having a loaded pistol stowed in an unlocked compartment is just as concealed as having it in your pocket, and you can't exactly leave it lying on the hull in plain view. If you don't have a Concealed Carry permit you should really take great care to secure your weapon. It might take you 30 seconds longer to unlock and load the weapon but you won't be arrested for having a concealed weapon on a random inspection.

That being said if you aren't sure if your particular circumstance is legal or not it could very well be in a gray zone, and gray zone's are not somewhere you want to be when dealing with a firearm, you should consult local law enforcement or a lawyer and have them examine your specific situation.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Had a chat with a pal of mine which is a KDFW officer and he says that they can search anywhere at anytime on a boat, on trailer, docked or on open water.
They need no reason.
But he also said that as long as the people tell him that there is a gun on board and tell him where it is, no problem.
The problem comes up when they do not say anything and he happens to find one.

 

[45Auto]

Re: firearms aboard your boat

Apparently Louisiana Fish & Wildlife can search anything, anywhere. I've been told by LE friends that they routinely take a F&W officer on a drug bust so the whole car can be legally searched (looking for a game violation of course. If the officers just happen to see something...........).