Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

[charleswmoore]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

I am so glad not to be alone on this one. The reservoir I installed seems to help the problem.<br />Since it is winter time and the sea water is much<br />colder it may be hard to tell if I have total resolution. It was also november when the dealer tore it down an inspected it and the noise was considerably less untill summer came and the oil<br />had thinned. i will be pulling drive soon for winter maint. and back in the water in another month so I'll keep ya posted. Mike how deep does your drive set in the water. Are you a deep V or relatively shallow v at stern? Boats like Carolina Classics that are very deep v;ed are not hearing this noise because the cone clutch assembly is below water. <br />If it makes you fell better I'm almost at 1000 hours and yes I will buy another one even with this concern.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

hello<br /> Mike<br /> glad to have ya onboard. I am the master mispeller and typoist here.<br /> the reason for tyhe post about not running a resevoir is because the way the cone clutch seats in the gear wheel. if the cup the copne seats into is full of oil it will take a long time to throw the oil out so the cone can engage. if the throttle is raised while the cone is seating then the cone suddenly locks guess what just happened.<br /> mmm yall post and tell me what happened. <br />I am no eng a neer but I have worked on boats and volvo penta and mercruiser and yammi and mercs and suzuki and force and jap mariners as well as carolina classics albermarles parkers swanpoints and a myriad of other boats for almost 30 years. you name it I have tried it or seen it tried, there is almost no mistake you can make that I havent seen or made. <br /> anyway try to tell me what happens when the cone locks to the gear after the oil is thrown out and the rpms are climbing.<br /> the major problem we are having with the sx drive is propshaft seal failures. its a volvo engineering issue. in other words it just flat dont work. the seal rubber becomes unbonded from the steel backing and allows water contamination of the oil. but we have complained to volvo since 1998 that I know of.sometimes slight rattles are normal as the gear backlash is about .010. and if the motor has any pulses at all from idling issues it will cause some chattering of the backlash, dont mean to bust anybody's chops just dont try to reengineer this product. other than that seal . it works well and it is a gear box so some noise is to be expected. double check the oil for water and check the gimbal again. its the same bearing that merc omc and yammi used. same tool fits all of them. the new style merc coupler have aft facing grease fittings on some that require a new or modified tool<br /> anyway all of the other posts look towards slight wear in components. the shift shoe shimming will require you to identify the type of cone used in your application but its a straight fwd procedure. to many shims and its hard to get out of gear not enough and it destroys the upper unit. good luck and keep posting

 

[charleswmoore]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

Yes I agree whenever you have to re-engineer anything it stinks. But so does a rattle so loud people ask if you have a diesel. I understand Mercury made this kit mandatory on all the Bravo 3 drives due to the rear (or in this case front) bearing running dry???(This is only a rumor i was told so i have nothing t back it up) I have at this time almost 50 hours with the res. so as of yet I do not see the hypethedical concern you speak of. Or have you actually seen this issue in real life.? Now in defense of what you are saying this is a fishing boat that is 27 feet so the kind of operation it gets is quite different from a ski boat. Also if we have as bad of an issue with lower seals this even makes me want the res more since I can see if the level is changing indicating water intrusion?? Because I had other concerns when i did this I made sure <br />that it was completly reversable. IE: I am using the same hole that the dipstick uses so it could be removed at first sign. Also I would not do anything while the unit is in Warranty. I will try to snap a shot of my method an attach on a posting so my method can be better evaluated. Guys I apologize if this posting looks or reads hard but with no one else including VP having this issue I was at WITTS end on this issue.<br />Maybe ROdbolt since you are so close I can offer you a fishing trip out of Hampton. Maybe I could get a better opinion and you can get a mess of Flounder. Whatcha Think.<br />Charlie

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

hey I might take ya up on that, I go up that way from time to time. I have seen the results of overfilling. spent time in court over it a year or so ago. the customer had overfilled the drive. he called with a complaint that it was slow to go in gear but failed to say anything about the oil change he and his lovely bride did.<br /> the marina owner said yea it may need some adjusting it had almost 30 hours on it. well it got throttled up before the cone engaged and spit the upper shaft though the upper bearing cap.looked almost like it had been machined. took a bit to get the full story and by then the guy had his attorney on the phone so we turned it to Volvo-penta legal and we all got to have fun. Volvo wont pay for that type of damage. I dont mean to sound know it all or anything if its that loud then maybe have another shop check the intermediate shaft shimming and check the upper gear case back lash and use some yellow lead dye from a GM dealer to check tooth contact pattern. gears is geras. dont matter if its a boat a M22 4sp or a 6 spd porshe or a combine. I have built them all<br /> loose backlash and loose tapered bearing preload is noisy. but always remember when in doubt Loose Lives. Tight Dies.

 

[charleswmoore]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

So Mike Neil it seems it's in your ball park. Rod<br />has some really good valid concerns and I can guess Volvo was the one that indicated this was the reason for his customers failure. To add a little to this story when I installed a Stroked 350 (383) in my old boat that had a VP 280 drive I contacted VP to ask them how much horsepower this drive could handle they had no problem with what I put behind it they only had concerns about high RPM shifting. Well I can tell you the results of that in an ealier cone shift drive. My old boat had dual controls on a single station and one of my buddies got confused and advanced the throttle while in neutral and got excited and through it into gear with the shift lever. Well it was midnight and i was asleep in the cabin but from what woke me up I would assume she was around 4500 when it went into gear and it sheered the intermediate shaft off. <br />To make a long story short I converted to Kobalt<br />dual controls that have neutral/throttle lock outs. If you carry yours to a dealer and they fix it please let me know the results. And yes Rod is corect in regards to shifting, It responds now exactly like a hydraulic drive. When you slide it into gear you feel the prop slowly slide into gear in leiu of an abrut clunk. I do prefer it that way since I am use to straight inboards with the inherant transmission reaction times. Now the concern of having anyone screw with your gear set patterns. Once the pattern is lapped in it is very hard to repattern. As small as these gear sets are (And they are spiral) when you paint the pattern with marking compound it will be very hard to distinguish and it is very tough to set. (Like he said a tight pattern will melt itself down in short order.) I know one person that sets up car rear ends and that is his specialty that is why I am very cautious of anyone who wants to reshim anything without starting with a fresh set. Now changing the bearing preload is also difficult without changing the pattern. When my drive was down the dealer checked backlash and it was within specs. He felt he could add some preload and maybe reduce the noise but i said no for reasons above. Also i put the re-assembly on hold untill I looked at the pattern myself. It was text book. I know a mechanic want to be that tells me he went to facory school on this drive. He told me the noise I am hearing is do to the way the shift fork rides in the cone clutch. He tells me the running surface of the cone is shaped in such a fashion to allow the fork to walk the clutch apart. I think that is bullcrap. I am personally convinced it is total backlash issues and as the oil thins worse the problem. You didn't say when you changed your oil if you used OEM or not, I did but thinking about changing to amsoil? Also my old 280 drive used straight 30 weight and it had no such issues were this is somethng like 40-75??? <br />Please keep me posted on your findings. Even off line would be appreciated charleswmoore@usa.net

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

hello<br /> the V shaped center of the cone is actually a cam. it is ground lopsided. that is what helps to bump the cone to the neutral position and while its in nuetral it may chatter on the shift shoe some. I think the noise is a backlash and preload issue. its a transmission. some are noiseier than others. its a very small gear for what it does. as far as the cone swimming in oil. if you always wait until the cone is locked in gear before throttling then I dont see where it will hurt it.in nuetral with the engine running the smallest engine pulses and remember there are 4 pulses every revplution can cause the lash to chatter as the lash is taken up then the gears bounce apart again. its a big problem on jackshafted motors. so its hard to say if your noise is a problem or is it normal gear noise for that unit. but I agree with ya about not changing the gear contact after that long of a run in. its not good for them and sometimes will accelerate wear. the gears are only hardened .01 or so deep.<br /> good luck and keep posting<br /> ps I have seen the 290 and dpe and c drives go over 3000 hours with only minor shift shoe and shift cover problems. mercs alpha 1 will rarely go over 350 hours behind a small block. and the DP-e drive will run behind a 412 horse 8.1 litre all day<br />try to run an alpha1 behind an 8.1

 

[mikeneal]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

Wow, It has been a while since I checked the posting and it seems I missed alot. Shame on me being a slacker. The weather has been bad here lately so not too much time on boat. (well bad for us, I know we are pretty spoiled). It has about 125 hrs on it now. I hear the noise only every now and then, always only in netraul iding. I feel lots better about it. I am pretty anal about things and until I understand them, I worry alot. I have never agreed with the "let it go, and maybe it will fix itself" approach to anything. Someone asked about the depth of the drive. With it trimed all the way in and boat at rest the upper surface (where dipstick is) is about 1 inch under the water surface. I do have a general vibration question for the group. I have a slight vibration when turning with power on. It idel I get no more vibe then at straight ahead. However at power I do geta "slight" viberation through the boat. I worry about U joints for the reason mentions in a ealier post of mine and my question the those other with VP experince is....are your drives or should mine be exactly the same vibration -wise with all load conditions? <br /><br />As a side note: I feel WAY better about my inital chioce on the VP drive verse the Mercruiser. I knew very, very little about boats back in the day but when I saw a cut-away view of the SX drive at a boat show I knew from a enginerering power tranmission prospective it was better. Thanks again for everyone's help. -Mike

 

[nrladeere]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

I too have a vibration when turning with my 5.0 VP SX. Installed new gimbal and U joints last year but it is still there. Alignment is good. Could this be a prop issue? I have a new one on order. Is this normal to have vibs and noise when making a tight turn or should I keep looking for the problem. The drive runs out great other than in a tight turn under load.

 

[nrladeere]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

Could this noise be due to worn O rings on the drive shaft where it enters the gimble?

 

[charleswmoore]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

Hey guys,<br /> Since fishing here in Virginia has started up again I thought I would drop yall an update. I have changed my stern drive oil over to Amsoil <br />and still running my reservoir. She now has another 30 to forty hours on the engine and the noise still ocurs after a long run (Aproximately<br />15 miles) but she does quiet down pretty quick. I don't kow if its due to the reservoir or because Amsoil is better??? This is the most hours I have put on boat since installation of reservoir so from a previous post it does change some of it's shifting habits. When you go into gear she slides in like a hydralic xmission would instead of an immediate engagement. So far I see about a half inch of expansion in the tank<br />after running then return to normal (Where I marked it) after it sits. Still waiting for the ultimate fix from Volvo but with this many hours I cannot complain. also with this winters maint. schedule I relace the ujoint boot and changed the orings on the shaft where it sits in the gimble bearing just as a precautionary measure. Still happy with overall performance of the drive though.

 

[nrladeere]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

I resolved my slight vibration issue, it was a bad prop. Just a few nicks which had been dressed down, but when I put on a new Rapture SS, it is smooth as glass. Thanks for the help.

 

[mikeneal]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

I was jut checking in, nothing of note really new with the drive noises......have about 450 hrs on the drive now and occosally I still hear a very slight rattle at idle only. Lots of wakeboarding too, which is hard on drives (in andout of gear and full throttle starts). Has not gotten worse and the oil is changed about every 75hrs and always looks great. I did buy the new prop seal but have slacked and not installed it yet......really need to do that before it fails.

 

[bigbrownbuku]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

fellas this isnt a bulletin board. its a forum. start your own threads.

 

[mikeneal]

Re: Volvo 5.7GSI with DP-SM Drive 2001

Bulletin board? To whom are refering? Every post I read related to VP drives.