'08 Volvo Penta 5.7 GI Water In Cylinders

[Regal1973]

For the ones who were following my last topic of a VP with idle issues, I was chasing symptoms which finally lead me to this..... I believe I've now found the real issue......WATER IN CYLINDERS
This diagnosis finally came about after replacing the starter twice and having the same result of grinding noise on flywheel / no motor run.

Thanks to all who have offered help & suggestions, but now I feel it's a bit more serious an issue that a simple sensors, ignition etc

Back history: Just purchased boat with VP 5.7L GI MULTIPORT INJECTION less than 200 hours. Sea trial was only time boat ran without a hitch...every time since then (2 attempts to go out) have had issue with it stalling when idling. Messed with iac, distributor, new fuel & then it stranded us with grinding starter sound. Tried new starter with same result, no start , grinding noise..... now I find water in cylinders.

Water has been in cylinders for 6 days.
What I've done thus far: Disconnected kill switch, shut batteries off, pulled coil wire. Pulled the spark plugs late last night, FLOODED cylinders with seafoam fogger oil ( I did not turn motor over due to it being so late at night). 3 cylinders on starboard had water. One cylinder on port side with water.

Also ended up breaking a spark plug off. The porcelain and hex came out in one piece, leaving the threaded part in head. I guess I now have to try and use an "easy out".....just one more thing to deal with

Today I'll try and turn motor over, flush out water and re-fog cylinders with oil.
Once I do that, should I reinstall plugs and turn it over to see if I hear anything out of the norm? How will I know if I might have slightly bent or damaged anything by trying to start it multiple times. The motor ever so slightly did try to turn when starter would engage flywheel but never fully turned......starter would just kick back and grind on flywheel.

Anyone recommended in the Tampa Bay Florida area who is reputable, honest, capable of diagnosing the issue, evaluating the current condition of engine and on whether I can make out with a new exhaust system (if that is the issue) or the dreaded worst case, a new motor installed

If new motor is needed, anyone have my suggestions on quality replacement, reasonably priced with emphasis on good warranty. Guessing I would more than likely be able to get by with a short block if I need to go motor route.

Thanks to all for any info.

 

[KAR37922]

So is this a case of failed risers? Are you in saltwater, if so when were the risers changed last. Us lake floaters don't have the nice pretty water, but our risers last 20+ years vs 3-5.

 

[alldodge]

Having one ruff time with this one. The broken plug is going to be an issue. If the head is not removed then there will be pieces on the cylinder which could cause problems with a start up. Could take a chance and hope the pieces go out the exhaust clean. If they don't then would be looking at a rebuild.

That said you might be looking at full rebuild or replacement. Reman motor for 2500 or VP reman for 3200
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-volvo-penta-base-engine-300hp-1999-2015-p-10942.html

Could rebuild yours for around 2000 or so.

 

[Regal1973]

This is a 29ft saltwater cabin cruiser. The prior owner said he has the exhaust inspected, cleaned and new gaskets and bolts installed 8 mnths ago. There is evidence that the gaskets and bolts were replaced as they look a bit newer.....im reading that on salt boats, it's common for riser replacements as frequently as ever 3-4yrs....

As for the spark plu, it all came out in one piece other than the threaded sleeve. The pocilian and the center electrode were all intact so I don't think there is anything that has or will fall in motor. I just need to back out the threaded sleeve with the grounding electrode. I watched a couple videos on using a #5 EASY OUT to extract the threaded sleeve. I'm going to soak the sleeve in penetrating oil over the next day or so before I try to extract.

I'm sure the labor on a job like this will be significant! I've pulled motors and done rebuilds on cars but lifting a motor out of a BIG boat is beyond my capabilities.

 

[Scott Danforth]

pull the head while in the boat.

yes, risers get to be replaced on salt water boats frequently.

never take the word of the guy you bought it from.

 

[Bondo]

This is a 29ft saltwater cabin cruiser. The prior owner said he has the exhaust inspected, cleaned and new gaskets and bolts installed 8 mnths ago.

Ayuh,..... I'd pull the risers again for another inspection 1st,....

It's kinda odd, both sides would go bad at the same time,....
With that thought in mind,...
Just how low does the aft of the hull sit in the water,..??

Ya must have Atleast 13", from the outside water line, to the tippin' point inside the risers,.....

 

[old bird]

I think Bondo has it. odd both sides suddenly go bad. You said in the other thread it ran fine (other than idle) You beached it, or anchored ?? When you went to leave she would not turn over, you thought the starter, but it was water.

 

[Regal1973]

Old bird, yes boat seemed to run fine, never got hot. Anchored up in 3 ft of water. Boat sat for 3-4 hours and when I went to start, grinding from starter. I installed a new starter and exact same grinding. Pulled plugs and found water.
See my next post below for more details on water port side vs. starboard side.

 

[Regal1973]

Tonight I went ahead and turned motor over, blowing out the water. No water came out of the port side even though yesterday I had one plug with some moisture.
​​​​
The starboard side pretty much had water blow out of each cylinder.

I then flooded the cylinders again with oil. I barely threaded the plugs back in, just enough to get them to stay in ( with the exception of the one broken plug) and turned motor over to spread the oil.

Now I need to go ahead and figure out the exhaust and where the risers might have failed.

The risers definitely look like they are sitting high enough from waterline but not 100%. It's a Regal Commodore boat.

Anyone ever tried stainless risers and manifolds? Just a thought....What about converting to a closed loop cooling system?

 

[BarryTurano]

T
Anyone ever tried stainless risers and manifolds? Just a thought....What about converting to a closed loop cooling system?

If you re-power put in the closed system if you are just going to repair what you now have in my opinion it is not worth the cost of an aftermarket system. The motor has already been compromised by salt water. Just my uneducated opinion. Hopefully one of the experts on this site (or at least someone more knowledgeable than me) can steer you in the right direction.

 

[QBhoy]

Believe it or not, some folk decide to try and save money by just replacing either risers or exhaust...not both. Usually and especially if aftermarket mating to oem original....they don’t match well. Worth a look.

 

[Lou C]

For one, it is a waste to put closed cooling on an engine that has been run in salt since '08 (if that's the case) the rust flakes in the block, heads and intake manifold will clog the heat exchanger. If you repower with new or re-man, sure its highly advised to do that in salt water regions. However, to the best of my knowledge, Volvo Penta did not offer a full system set up so the manifolds would still be raw water cooled, although if the raw water pump flows enough water, it might be able to be done as a custom job.
When replacing the manifolds, check out the Barr aftermarket ones. They are made in USA, the quality is good and the price is reasonable. I used a set on my old OMC 4.3 when converting from the one piece batwings to the center riser style.
You may well be able to remove the top end of the engine, with the engine in the boat. I did it on my boat and it was not hard, you have to keep all the fasteners organized and clean everything to keep dirt out of the engine, before you start taking it apart. I used a cordless De Walt impact gun to remove the head bolts, they all came out without breaking despite corrosion. You could bring your cyl heads to an automotive machine shop to see if they are worth redoing, but first really check the cyl walls for corrosion. If the engine turns over easily it may be OK. Fogging it well after getting the water out as soon as possible is the way to save it...

 

[Lou C]

[No message]

 

[Regal1973]

Makes total sense in NOT doing a closed cooling system at this point & no stainless exhaust.
I'm looking at the Barr brand risers and manifolds now...just need to make sure I purchase the correct set for my 2008 VP 5.7L Gi-G multiport injection motor.

What about gaskets...use standard ones that typically come with the set or upgrade to better quality or I see they even offer copper? Doesn't seem like the gaskets are what typically fail but the risers themselves from salt, correct?

Would it be recommended that I do a compression test before I get to far into all this replacing exhaust? After getting water out & fogging the cylinders; starter turned it over nice and easy.

 

[alldodge]

It would be rare for a new gasket to cause any issues, don't see the need for anything special.

Agree with compression test, and leak down test. Should be able to rent/loan them from auto store if needed

 

[Regal1973]

I have a compression tester so I'll start there. I will make sure they are within 10% of each other. What numbers should I be looking for, in range of 160,170, 180?

 

[alldodge]

I would like to see 150 which puts it close to new, at 130 its still go, but so long as they are within 10% it will run.

 

[Regal1973]

If the compression test falls within the recommended allowances, will I still need to do a leak down test? I ask this because I don't readily have available a leak down test kit. I can get one, just don't know if it would be nessicary.
If the water warped a valve while running or after shut down, wouldn't that show up with bigger variations of compression between cylinders?

 

[alldodge]

Don't have to do it, it just provides more insight into the health of the motor. The leak down test advises on valves and rings. I wouldn't go and buy one, maybe just see if the auto store will loan it.

As before don't its not a must do

 

[Lou C]

Agreed the leak down test is not a necessity but a very good diagnostic tool because it will tell you where the comp loss is occurring, intake valve, exhaust valve, or piston rings. If your comp test results are good (usually you will see between 160-175 or so) then you don't need to do it, but if one is low, it will let you know what's the cause before you even take it apart. Keep in mind if you do a cold comp test the results will not be as accurate.

Believe it or not, on my engine that had both head gaskets blown, none of the comp test results were low! The way it blew it let water into the cyl as the engine cooled off, but did not cause low compression. So while I knew I had water in the cyls, I did not know for sure this was the cause till I took off the heads and removed the gaskets, then it was obvious.
The other odd finding was that I had cracks in the exhaust valve seats on the center cyls on both heads (probably from the overheat) but those cyls never had water in them. It was the front 2 cyls, #2 had the most, #1 just a mist of water.

I used the Barr gaskets that came with the complete kit, they are a nice thick composite gasket and I used Permatex Aviation Sealer on the gaskets, and all the bolts as advised by the Barr tech support guy.


One last interesting finding, we all have heard the endless debate about motor oil. Is the more expensive 'marine' oil worth it, or not? Many think it's not. Well take a good look at the pushrods and rocker arms on this engine, it had salt water in it for close to a week. It has been run on Merc 25/40 motor oil for about the past 5 seasons, before that I used Chevron Delo 400. I have to think that the Merc oil helped, because despite having salt water in it that long, there was really no rust to speak of, anywhere!