1982 Seaswirl Lancer open bow 3.8 OMC I/O The saga continues!

[Frickinfrack]

1982 Seaswirl Lancer open bow 3.8 OMC I/O

I just bought one for next to nothing. has the GM 3.8 and was seized. With some patience (and some WD40) I was able to break it loose and now spins with the typical resistance from valve train. My wife will be making it look "pretty" I am charged with making it work reliably. I've worked on many of the 3.8's in cars and they have always been pretty reliable. I'm looking for some advice on what to do and not to do during this project It will be going in salt water but nothing bigger than Tampa bay. Too small to go into the gulf of Mexico in my opinion. The fiberglass is in very good shape for a boat of this age and I basically stole it so not afraid to put some $$ and lots of time into it. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

 

[Woodonglass]

Welcome to iBoats!!1 Pics always help us to help you. First order of business is the Core Sample the Transom, Motor Mounts, Stringers and Bulkheads and search diligently for soft spots in the deck. Boats of this vintage usually have LOTS of issues with ROT below the deck.

 

[Bondo]

I am charged with making it work reliably.

Ayuh,...... Welcome Aboard,...... Unfortunately, ya bought the wrong driveline,.....

OMC has been outa business for decades,....
'n the stringer drive is obsolete, with pretty much no parts available for the drive, or the marine parts of the motor,.....

 

[Frickinfrack]

Not sure what a core sample is. There is a port in the middle of the floor (deck?) that was used to store water skis. The edges around it are pretty soft and I was going to just make the hole bigger and use a different cover. The rest of the deck is really solid. I did a "knock test" on the whole underside and rear of the boat. It all seems pretty solid to me. My wife has already removed all the seats and carpeting. Basically nothing left but the fiberglass, and engine, and outdrive. What it comes down to is I paid 600 bucks for the trailer and boat. I've been told the 3.8 is a problematic motor and I should swap it for a 4.3 or 5.0 V8. It's basically a project for the family. The outdrive and thingy (transmission?) that goes between them was replaced and was used once for about an hour. I've checked and it goes up and down , the trim adjustment also works. Can any one confirm what I've been told about the engine and possibly give me some guidance on this. I'm pretty handy and don't have a problem rebuilding the 3.8 that it came with but not if it's going to constantly give me problems.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Soft spot - Your hull is rotten

Motor sat frozen - Do a compression test, however suspect the motor needs a rebuild

The drive will need ball gears, vertical driveshafts and a bunch of other parts

You didnt "steal" the boat, you bought a boat that should have been scrapped, and the guy that sold it to you is now happy as can be

The buick 3.8 may have been an OK car motor, however it was not a stellar or reliable boat motor

Swapping motors to a 4.3 or 5.0 requires a different intermediate assembly as the flywheel and bolt patern is not the same

The OMC stringer 800 has some good points, however it has way to many issues. The ball gears, the 3-piece vertical shaft prone to failure, the $500 lower shift cable that is extremely fragile nd difficult to find

As Bondo stated, OMC went out of business decades ago

Knock test means nothing

 

[Frickinfrack]

Scott Danforth What do you recommend for a replacement for the engine/ drive? I need it to be reliable, as the family will be joining me out on Tampa Bay in this thing. I know cars and trucks but not boats. Budget is kinda and issue but not a huge one. I completely understand the "Break Out Another Thousand" saying and am not scared to get my hands dirty to save $$ here and there. I've already been offered $400 for the trailer so not too worried and I've had lessons that were considerably more than the $600.00 I paid for the whole thing.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I recommend you part it out, and buy a different boat

The transom would beed to be replaced for any other drive as the stringer drive has a hole in it large enough to drive a truck thru

Restoring the hull and replacing your transom will cost you $2500-$3000

A different motor and drive will cost you about $2000

Then if you need an interior, your about $2k unless you do all the sewing yourself

Not to mention the 400 hours of work you are looking at

For that price you can get a nice running 2005-2010 18-20 foot boat that will need minor work

 

[Scott Danforth]

Look into freedom boat club or some of the other boat rental companies in the tampa bay area. I think there are 5 or 6 of them

You can try various boats, find the type your family likes, that way you can have a reliable boat for use until you find a better boat.

Stay away from OMC, any ford motor, and volvos with volvo motors (stick with chev I/O motors) or go outboard

 

[Frickinfrack]

Thanks for all the info.Can anyone recommend a good reliable engine/ drive and boat that I should be looking for? Looking for something to start with and see if we will actually use it. Have a family of 4 and a couple grand kids from time to time so I'm thinking 17-20 foot open bow should be fine.Maybe a pontoon?, but concerned with taking it out in rough-ish water like we get in Tampa Bay from time to time. I'm liking the idea of renting but the wife is not on-board with this. At this point she is determined to fix the "bargain" we just bought. I've learned not to argue with her on such things and I don't have a problem trying but don't want to have to call sea-tow every time I take her out.

I'm very confident in the hull being sound and can see the entire "inside" under the deck. It's in very good condition and it has supposedly never been in salt water. Judging by the condition of the interior he took good care of it but it sat a lot. The issue with the floor is not rot, it was caused by the plywood delaminating from the hatch being removed and one of my kids stepping too close to the edge. It is only like 1/2 inch in. Will cut the bad out and replace with the same wood and have a fiberglass guy finish it off. Might just find a hatch that is 3/4 inch wider and cut the hole bigger. The rest of the floor is solid.

I'm planning on doing a compression test on the engine one I have replaced the starter (that looks like fun, NOT!). If it has and holds 90-100 PSI (correct me if I'm wrong on these specs) on each cylinder I'll go ahead and rebuild the carb (Rochester dual jet), replace the points, and alternator and see if she lives or not. Do I absolutely have to have the exhaust manifolds on the see if this thing with fire and idle for no more than 3-5 minutes? I don't want to waste the $$ on them if the engine is toast. Supposedly cracked exhaust manifolds where the original issue. I had a little water in 2 of the cylinder and hint of it in the crankcase. I'm assuming I will need to hook up some source of water to run the engine while out of the water? Is this a thing? I have no experience with I/O setups and little with the outboards. I have found a rebuilt engine and stern drive for about $2K with a 3 year warranty so will probably go that route for piece of mind if the original one doesn't run well. For the within 100-200 bucks I can choose a 3.8 (which it has now), 4.3, or 5.0. Not even sure a V8 will fit but would be nice to have the sound of it (kinda a car guy). Can I get a recommendation on that?

I'm basically on a fact finding mission at this point. The wife will continue to redo the interior while I figure out the rest. Any and all opinions are welcome and appreciated. I figure if nothing else we will spend time together as a family working on it. You can't put a price tag on that as far as I'm concerned. Hell, the boys (15 and 16) might even learn something!

 

[kcassells]

Frick... Most of us here are because we "bought a great" deal. Some better/worse than others. It does seem that the senior members have recommended the engine issue is huge. Stuff happens. Like Scott said try a couple rentals for the type you would like. Then hit the local paper/Craigslist/boat houses to see what meet your needs.
Like the older boats need a complete rehab but your engine scenario is a biggy apparently.
How would you know? Buying a boat is nearly a compulsive purchase.
So on the continuing note see what you find that you like, take a lot of pics, begin reading a lot more here and around the forum then hit us up for an option on th next purchase prior to buy.
I've been working on my "great deal" for 5 years. Welcome to the club.

 

[Frickinfrack]

Thanks Kcassells, I am fully ready for the project (with my wife behind me pushing with all her might). The missus and I are very good at repurposing things for a use they were not intended for. We are using carpet squares for the interior and using some gaming desk chairs for the seating and the bolt pattern on the bottom matches the pedestals we are re-using from the original build. I'm not afraid of taking my time and rebuilding the whole thing if need be. It will equate to family time that does not involve a TV which is the end result I was ultimately looking for. If the boat sits in my yard for a few years while we are refurbishing it then that is just fine. Our intended use was to putter around Bayport near weeki wachee anyway. Have no intention of going in any deep water. Possibly cross Tampa bay on a really really calm day but probably not even that. We have kayaks and will be getting a little paddle boat soon for puttering around. The Seaswirl is more for the experience than to actually use it (although at some point it would be nice to open her up and see what she will do). I've read that the 4.3 is more reliable so if the 3.8 doesn't have decent compression then I'll go that route (if anyone can confirm this please let me know). I can get the engine and I/O unit for about $2200 with a 3 year warranty. Never changed an entire I/O unit before so that should prove interesting. If worse comes to worse, we will make it look pretty and just sell it!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Thanks for all the info.Can anyone recommend a good reliable engine/ drive and boat that I should be looking for?

Nothing with OMC, Buick or Ford

I'm liking the idea of renting but the wife is not on-board with this. At this point she is determined to fix the "bargain" we just bought. I've learned not to argue with her on such things and I don't have a problem trying but don't want to have to call sea-tow every time I take her out.

you didnt get a bargain, you bought a trailer with a boat needing full restoration.

I'm very confident in the hull being sound and can see the entire "inside" under the deck. It's in very good condition and it has supposedly never been in salt water. Judging by the condition of the interior he took good care of it but it sat a lot. The issue with the floor is not rot, it was caused by the plywood delaminating from the hatch being removed and one of my kids stepping too close to the edge. It is only like 1/2 inch in. Will cut the bad out and replace with the same wood and have a fiberglass guy finish it off. Might just find a hatch that is 3/4 inch wider and cut the hole bigger. The rest of the floor is solid.

if wood is de-laminating, its not original encapsulated by fiberglass floor. this has me concerned as you may have bought a "deck-over" post pics. pretty sure its not solid.

I'm planning on doing a compression test on the engine one I have replaced the starter (that looks like fun, NOT!). If it has and holds 90-100 PSI (correct me if I'm wrong on these specs) on each cylinder I'll go ahead and rebuild the carb (Rochester dual jet), replace the points, and alternator and see if she lives or not. Do I absolutely have to have the exhaust manifolds on the see if this thing with fire and idle for no more than 3-5 minutes? I don't want to waste the $$ on them if the engine is toast. Supposedly cracked exhaust manifolds where the original issue. I had a little water in 2 of the cylinder and hint of it in the crankcase. I'm assuming I will need to hook up some source of water to run the engine while out of the water? Is this a thing? I have no experience with I/O setups and little with the outboards. I have found a rebuilt engine and stern drive for about $2K with a 3 year warranty so will probably go that route for piece of mind if the original one doesn't run well. For the within 100-200 bucks I can choose a 3.8 (which it has now), 4.3, or 5.0. Not even sure a V8 will fit but would be nice to have the sound of it (kinda a car guy). Can I get a recommendation on that?

• good compression is 130-150 psi
• yes, you need the exhaust manifolds or you may start your boat on fire
• if you pull an automotive motor, you need to pull the motor apart, change the core plugs to brass, change the head gaskets to marine, change the water pump to marine and you may need to change the cam to marine. the 3.8 was never used in trucks, so the cam profile may not be correct.
• you need to have water hooked up. Stringer drives usually have a port on one of the trunion mount caps.
• your drive will only take a buick motor (or olds or pontiac).
• you can not switch to a 4.3 or 5.0 unless you change the drive (intermediate at least, then re-gear the upper) - see post #7

I have found a rebuilt engine and stern drive for about $2K with a 3 year warranty so will probably go that route for piece of mind if the original one doesn't run well.

only an OMC stringer will fit your current hull in its current configuration. assume $2k to rebuild your stringers, transom, and floor and you can install what ever drive you want to - see post #7

I'm basically on a fact finding mission at this point. The wife will continue to redo the interior while I figure out the rest. Any and all opinions are welcome and appreciated. I figure if nothing else we will spend time together as a family working on it. You can't put a price tag on that as far as I'm concerned. Hell, the boys (15 and 16) might even learn something!

interior will cost you about $2k, about $1200 for vinyl, foam, staples, wood, etc. if you sew it yourself - see post #7

 

[Frickinfrack]

Bought a boat. I still think I got a pretty good deal. Paid 600 bucks for it and the trailer. Axles is in good shape and bearings are good as well. Hull is solid (had inspected). Wife is redoing the interior. I'm tasked with the fun stuff. It has a 3.8 withe the distributor on the rear of the motor. The engine was seized due to water in the cylinders due to cracked exhaust manifolds (or something like that). Was able to free up the engine but compression is low for my taste on 2 of the cylinders so want to replace. I've been told it's a Buick 3.8 and is basically junk. I've also been told that I cannot replace it with any other engine. I've since seen many posts that state it is actually a chevy engine and that a 4.3 will bolt right in.I'm including pics of the plate on the valve covers in the hopes that someone can answer the question once and for all. The mid-drive was replaced and then it was used once for about an hour. Boat has 235 hours on the clock and judging by the condition I believe it. I'm looking for advice. What V6 engine is the best swap candidate? Will a 305/ 350 fit/ bolt up?

 

[southkogs]

Welcome aboard:

I don't know what will swap out besides the 3.8. Someone else would have to answer that one. BUT I would suggest you do a check on the stern drive first and then a gut-check on keeping the boat.

A 1982 OMC is a Stringer stern drive. I don't dislike the Stringer, but it's an antique. The drive-type was discontinued by OMC in 1986, and then OMC itself was discontinued in the 1990s. MANY (if not most) marine mechanics won't work on them - even if they know what it is. Parts are getting harder to find, and the drive - while it has it's advantages - can be finicky. I'm assuming yours is full mechanical shift, which is good. But no matter what work you do to that engine - if the drive is monkeyed up, you'll be in an uphill climb. The Stringer can't be re-powered to a Merc or Volvo without completely rebuilding the transom. So, it's not a simple fix later. So - what kinda' shape is the drive in?

 

[Frickinfrack]

southkogs From what I can see it's in great shape. The intermediate thingy was just replaced before it sat for 2 years. Will be pulling it all off tomorrow so I can yank the engine out. Any tips/ tricks on this would be much appreciated. I found a place in Canada that will sell me a refurbished unit for a pretty reasonable price. They also have a ton of parts for the stringer 800 which is what Iv'e been told I have. I'm assuming I should check the oil in it and see if it looks clean and has any water in it? The prop spins free when in neutral and does not move much (like 1-2 degrees) when in gear. I'm well aware that the whole boat is an antique. Looking to restore it to it's original glory. It has never seen salt water and is in great shape except for the engine. I am capable of rebuilding the engine but I can get one already done w a 1 year warranty for about $1400 so will probably go that route. My real question is do I go back in with the same engine (3.8) or the bigger one (5.0)? I can get a 305 that supposedly will "bolt right up" for less but don't want to add to my ever-growing hunny-do list. I've read that the 4.3 and 3.8 use the same bolt pattern if the both have the 2 piece rear main seal but can't find any 4.3's. Wife already has the interior stuff recovered with new vinyl but I won't let her install anything till the engine is done so I don't ruin her hard work. I've read that the SeaSwirl was a really good company that build rock solid boats. Do you have any opinion on this? The plan is to use it for puttering around Bayport and trips across Tampa Bay. No intention of getting in any really deep water. It will probably be a stepping stone to something bigger many years from now. Maybe to be handed down to one of my boys once they are out of the "teen years".

 

[southkogs]

Sea Swirl's offshore boats are/were probably something a little more. But the Lancer is probably nothing to write home about. By that I mean, it's probably a nice boat and will have some things you really like about it. But it's not going to be prestigious beyond being something you did, that's nice lookin' and unique. The brand plate isn't anything most folks will notice, and I think a lot of their trailer boats were kinda' copies of the Sea Ray hulls. That's pretty normal in the 60s through the 80s: everyone was makin' trailer boats ... and they all plagiarized each other to some degree.

If you're doing it because you like the idea of the old boat, like the boat and like the idea of the work - go for it. Just realize, you can probably find something pretty ready to go on the water with a Merc system (that still has service and parts easily available) for less than what it will likely cost you to get this one going. I'm an "old glass" fan, so if you're all in - go for it. Just go with eyes wide open.

- Your stern drive is a full mechanical (I believe) Stringer 800. But the 800 series was the moniker for the drive behind a six or eight cylinder. I believe your lower unit will have the same gear ratio as any other 800, but I think the upper changes between HP ratings. You'll have to research that - I'm not as familiar past '76. - You've got two gear cases in the Stringer - upper and lower - and they have separate lube chambers. The intermediate is yet another stage, and has it's own lube reserve as well.

Taking the drive off is easy - BUT you have to protect your shift cable. That sucker is EXPENSIVE and, from what I understand, easy to damage. Get a manual to walk you through drive removal.

Check your upper gear case for water intrusion. In my experience, that's the one that jams up fastest. If you've got it separated from the rest of the drive, you should be able (with your hand or maybe a wrench/tool) turn the ball gear and make everything move by hand. If you can, then you're probably mostly okay. If it's not moving, then you could have some problems.

Check the ball gears - they are typically pretty worn out. I've never replaced 'em, but it can be done. Again; you're going to want the shop manual (you can buy one HERE).

A fun vintage cruiser is cool. And if you're going for that, you're good. The Stringer is surprisingly quiet when it's running right. And I think it maneuvers better than the newer drives do. But it also like attention, so plan on having to love on it in the garage more than you might expect.

 

[garbageguy]

235 hours on a 1882? If that's anywhere near real, that machine sat a lot. Generally, machine's don't like that, but maybe you found a gem - hope so.

 

[Frickinfrack]

southkogs Thanks for the info. Will order manual and wait to tackle the outdrive. New plan is to take as much of the engine off as possible to make removal easier. You get it, I want to restore something and am tired of cars (can't believe I just said that). I don't expect it to win any awards or speed records. I just want something that my family can be proud of and work on together.

 

[Frickinfrack]

garbageguy Thanks. I hope so too!

 

[Scott Danforth]

if the dizzy is at the front of the motor, its the buick 231 V6 that OMC used for years and can only be replaced by a Buick V6. no way around it, no how to bolt a Chev based motor to the intermediate.

if the dizzy is at the back of the motor, its a 229 Chevy motor that OMC didnt start using until later (about 1983). and that can be replaced by another 229 (3.8), a 1985 only 4.3 or it can be replaced by any 1985 or earlier Chev V8's if you re-gear the drive. the reason I mention a 1985 only 4.3, as that is the only 4.3 that has a 2-piece RMS crank.

so stand back and post a pic of your whole motor.

there is no coupler for a stringer for a 1-piece RMS crank unless you make one, so no motors after 1985 will work. you can take the ford coupler and re-machine the OD and bolt circle.

you should have a mod combine this with your other thread since they are both on the same topic.

FYI - the cost of the shift cable is now $700 (up from $550 last year)